Idea of hardware more fun than the reality?

The Lounge Other Gear
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Hardware is a lot of fun, but it also can have some drawbacks. The fun part for me comes from hands on control, how things look and feel, and analog sound. Hardware doesn’t have to mean only hardware. I prioritize instruments first.

I have sequenced hardware synths with hardware sequencers and recorded to tape through an analog mixer and it was a lot of fun. But it’s difficult to make a finished arrangement that way if you’re just noodling around and jamming. You really would need to go into it with an idea of what the composition was first or transfer everything to the computer and edit and mix there to give it some structure.

Sync can be a nightmare but it’s not totally necessary if you just manually set things to the same tempo and press play at the right time. Huge setups with tons of different redundant groove boxes all synced together seem like a nightmare to me too.

I’ve come around to thinking that if you’re ever going to end up with stuff in the computer for final mixing and editing you might as well get it into the computer as soon as possible. But having a lot of stuff going on in realtime with multiple hardware boxes and then tracking it together all at once rather than one instrument at a time is a nice hybrid in-between. You get the hands on jamming feel, use the computer just as a tape recorder without having to interact with it much while you’re playing and then you can skip the step of transferring everything over after the fact.

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Sometimes it can make for a different kind of track, or sometimes it turns into sample fodder. That’s why one of the number 1 things that I try to remember is to record as much as possible, even when you’re just messing around. Much easier to cut and paste later than to recreate a moment of “oh shit that was tight”.

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I think we’ve both been on a similar journey exploring the various permutations of HW and ITB and I’m still in the rabbit hole no doubt. The problem with music tech is that it’s all so exciting so it’s hard to not wanna try it all.

I’ve at various times been ITB learning to make polished tracks, and then latterly getting fed up with that, as it started to feel like work as I know more. I’ve just jumped onto the Tonverk hype train and I won’t lie it’s a wake up call as to just how limted and unwieldy HW can be compared to the clean slate of an ITB project.

But it’s all about your goals. If you want to buy 6 boxes and rotate them, that’s cool. It doesn’t all have to be hooked up. Or a couple of grooveboxes with different workflows. Maybe you only buy budget gear and keep what you like and flip what you don’t. Or just ITB the whole time. It’s whatever works for you, and knowing what that looks like.

I’ve always felt that with 2 hands, 2 and maybe 3 is the absolute max I’d look to play at any one time. Ricky Tinez often talks about a synth, sampler and drum machine. I’m a fan of a synth with a sampler that’s also a drum machine to make it 2 boxes rather than 3.

A good way to look at it in terms of what you enjoy is in gear pairings or groups. In isolation, almost anything makes sense to add to your setup and I fell into that which is why I sold it all. I found that mapping out my sound, and the various wishlist items with various audio/midi mappings helped me plan a new setup.

I also find that rotating between ITB and HW is also good to scratch itches you aren’t scratching Sometimes you want the limitless options of a computer. Sometimes not. I think a HW and an ITB setup can be a good thing, and in some cases can be combined. In my case I go through phases of wanting both.

Honestly, I make better, cleaner songs that take longer to make on software. And I make probably a lot worse stuff on hardware, but it’s quicker and more immediate and hands on.

I like learning the gear to a point, but it’s about making stems I can share with friends and family mostly.

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Find your perfect machine. One machine that can do 90% of the full song and stick with it for months, sometimes changing to refresh a little bit.

I’ve found my machine and that is Polyend tracker mini. I can do full songs. Portable, battery, with a little speaker I can go everywhere. I’ve done a lot of songs with it. And do,end of sketches.

I need to produce things, not mess around infinite hours jamming and jamming. Its one of the reasons why I’m not into modular. For me, and it’s just an opinion, modular is for jamming. Not for make songs (again, my opinion). I prefer much much more self contained machines.

After find and try a lot of machines, you’ll find one that will make you happy. I hope.

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I feel more intimidated by the numerous bells and whistles of software, and the fact I can easily Alt-Tab away to a browser or game if I’m feeling uninspired.

Hardware, it can depend on the interface, but, assuming I don’t even have a computer switched on, it’s not as easy for me to move away from working on the device. Sure, I have my phone, but I don’t find writing on it as fun if I wanted to chat online. Browsing may be a bit of a different story, but it depends.

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Yep, I think you are probably right.

I absolutely love the PT Mini (and love what you do with yours).

I really like the idea of connecting boxes together and jamming, but it just doesn’t happen for me.

I think I see people like Florian and Ricky T and think “wow that looks so fun”, but when I do it, it’s just like work.

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I had a growing hardware collection for a few years, culminating in when I bought my home, and would finally have enough space (even if it was just a corner) to set everything up together. After a long time browsing the Your Setups thread and dreaming, I was finally ready to build my own little studio.

At its peak, my setup was efficient but versatile, with a routing I’d thought out quite a bit, and it was fun to jam on. But within a year, I realized I just wasn’t using it. I never got close to finishing a track with it; meanwhile, I had made significant progress toward my next album back in the box.

When I got my next job, working remote, I looked at the nice desk I’d bought for my synth setup, and made the tough call. That desk is now my work desk; all the gear is boxed up in that corner (except the Elektrons, which I keep handy in a cabinet).

I think where my mind had been going as I built my gear collection was that I might be building toward performing in some way, whether jamming with friends, or even taking a chance on an open mic night. But I realized I don’t need a whole setup for that. And the vast majority of the time, I’m just making music by myself, and for me at least, ITB has perennially proven itself to be the most fruitful place for it.

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I was a bit like that but I’m super disciplined now.
I know what I like and I pretty much always stick to the same things.

Kick always Kick 3
Synths Diva 90% of the time or HIve or Dune
Subs sublab
Drums buit in Bitwig machine.
Delay always Echoboy
Reverb always R2
Sampler Serato

I know them all backwards and it helps me focus on just making stuff.

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Sadly I don’t really know what I want with regards to how to write music I like. I can probably remix something but I struggle to make it sound original for one.

Hardware at least makes me focus better on the song creation process at hand.

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For me, I need to use hardware with a console or have an interface I can easily tweak. I come from a DJ background and that’s how I like to play. With faders and knobs. I can program ITB and enjoy a lot of the precision ITB can provide. There is a lot that can only be done ITB.

I like to jam out my music and then refine. An exception is drum and bass. I exclusively program DnB ITB. But I’m still kind of getting my bearings with DnB. I make deep minimal 4/4 music mostly.

I think the way we make music absolutely affects the vibe.

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Thanks! I guess it depends of what you want to do in your life with music. I want to hear my music in my car while driving at work, or simply driving. I feel the urgency to create and produce more music to hear it, makes me happy. But there are people that enjoy jamming all the time without produce anything. Both sides are good if you’re are happy, but in my experience, I’ve spent a lot of money trying to find something that suits me, and I guess all the people at the end find the definitive device.

You’ll find at the end. Think about you enjoy of your music. I love to jam and I do it sometimes but I prefer to make songs.

You can prepare a life performance during months. And you’ll have a full record. I think you need a project. A small project but a project. I hope to hear more here about your journey :slight_smile:

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Yeah I think that’s a great point actually. Even with the best hardware controller, things can feel one step removed. Hw gives you that instant feeling of playing and that you might be able to build a set up and play things out live.

Depending on where you’re at; that might not matter. To scratch both itches I now wonder if it’s better to have a Hw setup with lots of dials and things to play with, along with a laptop you can take anywhere. Then just take your pick.

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I want to get to the point where I don’t depend on others for music I like, so I can use my music in literally anything I want without having to credit others, agree about licensing and/or royalties, worry about how the original artist would feel about their work being used even if they were generous with the work etc.

I only regret that I neither really enjoy randomly jamming nor producing. I get frustrated with my unfinished work. I hope it changes soon.

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I believe this is an approach everyone can enjoy.

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Best method! :smiley: I love using boxes where you don’t need anything, no extra cables gear bla stuff dangling around. Boxes with enough multitimbral tracks to make complete Songs, such as

Syntakt (12 Tracks) OR Digitone II (16 Tracks) OR Digitakt II (16 Tracks)

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I have similar experience. I even made a post about this, probably on another forum.

When I finished high school, I got MC-909 as a reward for my scores. That was my first synth. Everything that I ever finished was done with only that. From my observation: I had more patience to input every… single… note… and enough of it to make two hours long sets that I played live (implying that I was fluent with it).

Now I have enough gear to overtake in numbers and money spend even some professional studios. And to me, when looking back, it is cautionary tale. It is a display of my depression and personality disorder that I had not so long ago. I never went into drugs, alcohol or any other more obvious means of escaping reality, so it went unnoticed by me and everyone else. But when I reflected on this, it was mind blowing.

Now: if this wasn’t my hobby… The amount of gear that I bought would take someone working eight hours a day, five days a week - more time to learn it than it took me to obtain it.

What am I pointing at is: one piece of gear, even with full understanding (I understand my Prophet X fully, I know all its capabilities… on paper, but I am not yet connected with it), to know it to work with it intuitively - takes huge amount of time. After my high school I got MC-909, then Nord Modular G2X and that was everything for more than ten years. Then, when OB-6 was released - I grabbed it. And from that time I collected shitload of gear. And from all that I can honestly say that OB-6 is the only intrument that I can program and play intuitively. That cooperates with my imagination. Everything else seems like a new instrument every time I sit in front of it, despite knowing most of it on paper, some times even deeper than more proficient users. It’s the intuition that isn’t connected. This takes time, if it’s meant to be - because not everything works for us and some things will never appeal to us.

The point of that is: most studios expanded overs significant amount of time. And if you are not working full time with that gear - your whole lifetime might not be enough to incorporate a single stack of gear into your intuitive workflow.

Cordially! :pray:t2::raised_hands:t2::heart:
Norman

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Great discussion and i have had similar thoughts recently. What’s helped me most is:

  • choosing and sticking with 1 “brain”. Working fluidly and knowing capabilities / limitations well eliminates a huge barrier. Constantly jumping between different brains will just take away from becoming more fluid with 1

  • Limiting how much hardware / plugins i have. This relieves the pressure of feeling like i need to use all of it and also helps me learn them well. Also helps me make decisions quickly and easily. “I need to do ___ . I’m going to use ___”

  • Recording or transferring my hardware output into my “brain” early and often; Sampling and multi sampling. Much easier to focus when it’s in 1 box and then i also won’t feel like i wasted my time just playing around. Also makes things easy to move around; i won’t feel like i need to carry lots of stuff with me. But in a way i still have it all in 1 box

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There’s a ton of great advice in this thread, and I don’t have much to add except, “I get it.” If you like working in Bitwig and got along well with the Circuit Tracks, don’t fight it — have fun making music with Bitwig and/or the Circuit!

I suspect COVID accelerated a lot of peoples’ collections, although even before that, we were seeing a massive explosion of new things to buy. I love looking at massive synth dungeons, Eurorack walls, and double-wide pedalboards, but it takes a very dedicated mindset to actually make that kind of setup work. I do way more damage when my main setup comprises one or two devices I know well (although to be fair, I also like keeping a closetful of things I can plug in for a bit of spice).

Since I’m already typing, here’s some personal background: my first real groovebox was an OP-Z that I picked up juuuuust before the pandemic in January 2020, and that kick-started a fairly fruitless quest for “the perfect workflow.” Prior to that, I had always had a main recorder (Tascam 788, then Ableton Live / Push 1 with occasional dabbling in Reason and Logic), and instruments and effects that I picked because they did a specific thing I liked. It made sense, and I never had any issues writing and finishing songs. But once I went down the groovebox pathway, I found myself obsessing about gaps — the OP-Z was an amazing sequencer, but the synths didn’t have enough heft. I bought some Pocket Operators and synced them no problem, but got frustrated with the 16-step sequencers and lack of MIDI input. So I picked up a Volca Keys, but the envelopes were annoying so I returned it and bought a Moog Sirin, which sounded great but really benefited from being connected to a computer, which I was trying to get away from. So I tried out a Mother-32, but missed the Sirin’s envelopes and second oscillator. I decided to keep the Sirin, but before selling the M32, I felt obliged to learn its sequencer even though I didn’t really like it. Also, the OP-Z’s drum sampler was pretty idiosyncratic, so I bought a Digitakt with my 2021 tax return, but the Digitakt’s conditional trigs weren’t as complex as the OP-Z’s so I still found myself using the OP-Z most of the time, and I sold the Digitakt after just six months… and on and on and on. (Spoiler alert, I sold the Sirin and bought another M32 in 2022, which I’m now considering selling again. I sold the OP-Z in 2022 because I was worried it would eventually break and be worthless. And I bought another Digitakt mki last week because I’ve only kind of learned my lesson.)

Oh, and let’s not forget the steady stream of new cables. Dear god, the cables…

Anyhow! You can chase it until you’re blue in the face. But you don’t have to. Hardware only works for the people it works for.

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The cables alone make me want to sell everything sometimes.

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