I want more than 64 steps on the MS - videos attached

Paulsvibes · 2022-07-19T03:56:07.276Z

HI so i am reading more of this and knowledgeable of Chains,
but also Trig Conditions.

First i have a certain Pluck sound sample melody im playing on certain steps in a 126BPM song, and its on Bank B (T2). Its setup now with PAGE using all 4 LED Pages (1:4, 2:4, 3:4, and the 4:4 under each PAGE LED), but Page 1 of the first 16 steps is using trigs 1 , 5 and 9, Page 2 using trigs 1 and 9. Page 3 using 1, 5, and 9. And lastly Page 5 using Trigs 1 and 9. But I have left over still to get these melody trig notes in there to fit into about 4 more bars (each bar hits the same trigs but different pitch note).
What do you recommend will resolve this? I attached video clips to show i have so far and what I want. https://youtu.be/lfecYRU539s

I know if i do a chain, i hate how chains get deleted when changing patterns or turning device off and on and it just does not save any of that.

1-2 · 2022-07-19T04:12:25.824Z

If I’m understanding you correctly it sounds like you don’t need the resolution so just change the pluck melody track scale to 1/2 and fit it in one pattern with 8 bar melody, no chain needed

Roger · 2022-07-19T04:26:02.004Z

Chains are best for sections than individual passages, so I get you.

You have two options here. You can take the pattern scale down to 1/2, as @1-2 said, or you can use a trick where you put a condition of 1:2 on the notes as they should be the first time around, and 2:2 on the notes that should play the second time around. “But they can’t be on the same step!” I hear you scream. Well there is a trick to get around that. Nudge the alternate notes all the way to the left! The slight timing error is unnoticeable at most normal tempos.

1-2 · 2022-07-19T04:53:05.969Z

Agreed I use both ways all the time. Sometimes even both at the same time for even more variation

Paulsvibes · 2022-07-19T04:55:23.610Z

very nice so then youre referring to this?

image896×657 104 KB

Roger:

Chains are best for sections than individual passages, so I get you.

You have two options here. You can take the pattern scale down to 1/2, as @1-2 said, or you can use a trick where you put a condition of 1:2 on the notes as they should be the first time around, and 2:2 on the notes that should play the second time around. “But they can’t be on the same step!” I hear you scream. Well there is a trick to get around that. Nudge the alternate notes all the way to the left! The slight timing error is unnoticeable at most normal tempos.

oh wow thats a crazy but workable intricate approach. so yeah i could squeeze them in and consolidate. Makes sense though ill seee what i come up with then. TY

Paulsvibes · 2022-07-19T05:14:47.946Z

Roger:

If I’m understanding you correctly it sounds like you don’t need the resolution so just change the pluck melody track scale to 1/2 and fit it in one pattern with 8 bar melody, no chain needed

If im in this scale mode i notice it works perfectly, though there’s that one measure on the step of a note where i need to make the one trig step melody note do a 3 note glitch as a 1/16th length or something that makes it play that trig or another trig right after it give me a 3 glitch or gated/or sample length cut off but plays it that note 3 times glitched, when you view my video right on the 17th second Mark its the note. Naegle Music on Vimeo

Roger · 2022-07-19T05:22:09.220Z

Since the glitch happens every 4 bars you can do it if you use the second solution I described.

Paulsvibes · 2022-07-30T22:03:28.673Z

HI, so i was able to work out all the above here recommended. My model:samples has 6 Tracks, though i have a couple more instruments I want to isolate IN and Out audibly but, even if i placed two different samples within 1 Track and on seperate steps not used using the conditions 1:2 and 2:2 but my problem i face is at times i want to completely cut out the Track 1 or any Track and if i do that then it mutes both consolidated samples on the condition steps used all together. My only thought is the later which is to get another hardware synth instrument in my setup for the extra tracks. Unless there something i havent found yet from the manual or a hail mary for this one? lol :D.

Roger · 2022-07-30T22:09:24.355Z

One workaround for that is to assign the underlined FILL condition to the trigs you want to “mute”. Then when you hold PAGE only the remaining trigs will play.

license · 2022-07-30T22:36:47.599Z

For posterity, just to combine all these and take this to its logical extreme…

Maximum sequence length is 64 steps
Slowest scale speed is 1/8
Lowest fraction of regular trig conditions is x:8

= 64 * 8 * 8 = up to 4096 steps before the step is heard again.

Plus, as @Roger mentioned, you can nudge (microtime) the steps to achieve finer resolutions - you’re not limited to half-notes.
Also, you can use different trig condition values for other steps on that track, so it’s even longer before the same bar is heard again, especially with prime or mutually prime denominators (x:3, x:5, and x:7 in particular). Or just try probabilities for some randomness.
You can also still use retrigs for drum rolls and fun velocity tricks.

You can do a lot with just one slow track!

Paulsvibes · 2022-07-31T02:28:24.077Z

Oh right right i do recall that can be done. Not a bad ideas its like cheating in an extra organic track. so it only works for one set of steps which are all set to Fill.

Roger · 2022-07-31T02:51:10.025Z

Right, it’s a trade-off

You gotta recognize that Elektron groove boxes are not gonna bow to your musical ideas as most people are used to in DAWs. They’re like… “sequencer playgrounds”. The limits are there because it gives things immediacy. From there, you can add more flexibility and lose immediacy as you go. If that makes sense. You can make your song on there for sure just don’t expect every idea you have to fit in one pattern. And if you want to stay on one pattern because it doesn’t have kits but the length restriction is too annoying there’s always external sequencing. Don’t beat your head too much forcing things.

You’ll do it anyway and eventually learn. I think we all do…

Paulsvibes · 2022-07-31T03:55:36.934Z

Sounds good ty and makes sense - (i do have an Arturia beatstep Pro, so it can trigger steps from it if i wanted as if its another Track). Now if i wanted to get another unit synth that allows uploaded wav audio file for samples and sequencing steps, and tracks… is there a different look and feel unit that would do similar but maybe in that $100 to $300 range?

Roger · 2022-08-01T06:11:37.702Z

Not in that price range.

license · 2022-08-01T12:10:13.624Z

A Sony PSP (OG, not Vita) or similar retro gaming handheld console running LGPT. It’s M8’s granddaddy. Don’t expect MIDI sync without a lot of work though.

Paulsvibes · 2022-08-02T04:30:00.392Z

what would you recommend, go ahead even if its a couple digit places out of price range?
Or should i go Euro modular to join the “patch cable Space” many get stuck in with to accomplish the simplicities i want? lol (sarcasm intended here ). But im willing to explore if i can keep it simple(stupid).

Paulsvibes · 2022-08-02T04:31:22.872Z

Is there a youtube video demo on the custom piece your mentioning?

license · 2022-08-02T04:44:36.939Z

There’s a ton of stuff on YouTube, but unfortunately its heyday was around 2010 when video quality standards were much lower, so a lot of the videos out there have nice beats but you can’t tell what the hell is happening on the screen. Example:

Roger · 2022-08-02T04:51:37.884Z

What you want is a Deluge. They can be had for a little more than that used but trust me it’s worth it.

Paulsvibes · 2022-08-06T19:53:35.183Z

I see and understand how it can get down to a micro level. If I’m wanting T1 (Track 1) with steps that stick with its 1 sound sample in sequence, because if i add another sound sample into this same Track 1 even if its micro or scaled to trig condition or underline FILL (hold Page to play those) i would have to hold that page the entire time, so i do have a Pedal Midi Mouse to turn a midi Program or Channel or Button On, curious if it will keep the PAGE button on for this ModelSamples(?) and how dig into the MS’s more interior mapping? Thats one goal idea which would be very cool to make it stay on then just tap pedal to turn/release PAGE to off(which is back to default normal or i can press it manually.

Other idea i want to do but if possible, Using my Arturia beat step pro to control and sequence to play the Steps that are on their own steps for 1 sample but be play as a seperate Track even though they are sitting on Track (T1) while the regular other sample is on the other steps of the T1 Track 1. So im expanding T1 into somewhat mor ethan one Track with control by the Arturia, and all the steps i want to trigger on MS can be set to its own unique Midi Channel? or maybe so the Arturia beat step pro can just be sequenced on itself to play the one step with sample on it that sits in T1/Track 1 of the ModelSamples? Hold down a step then go through the menu?