I Hate Fiddly Instruments

djst · 2023-05-18T21:42:41.831Z

Some companies get this, others don’t.

Elektron Digi boxes = sweet spot between seamless, intuitive interface and depth
Anything Roland from the past ten years = stay away
Honorable mention: Korg Minilogue XD

MuttBeats · 2023-05-18T23:21:16.242Z

Over the years I’ve worked out I can just about manage to hang onto muscle memory for a maximum of three different synth manufacturer button combo/menu diving UIs. So I’m good with the Hydrasynth (which is pretty intuitive anyway TBH), I’m good with Elektron (so far… Digitakt now, most probably DN and ST to follow I think) and I can just about manage my way around one of Roland’s less weird and annoying button/menu UIs (TR8S is OK). But if I add in a whole other bunch of gear with very different idiosyncrasies, then I’m just searching through the manual far too much because I can’t remember stuff and the whole vibe gets killed off for me.

This doesn’t apply to anything where the front panel controls tell you almost all you need to know like a Minilogue or pretty much anything that’s one knob per function with clear labelling on the panel. It’s only the gear where most of what you need is nested in a bunch of menus that aren’t logical, and where there’s a complicated button combo to do basic things that’s not obvious from the panel labelling and that isn’t consistent between different types of operation.

g3o2 · 2023-05-18T23:59:03.455Z

For songwriting, I like quick access with practically zero menu diving. So it is either presets with some layering or a barebones subtractive synth, recorded into a blackbox. The only fiddly subprocess is drum programming (iPad) and finalising the arrangement in the DAW, both a necessary evil.

On stage, I prefer to use a single fiddly instrument which can do everything I need: Korg Kronos, because I don’t like fiddling around with more than one device on there.

DJSpaceP · 2023-05-19T01:16:58.134Z

That’s exactly why I’m good with the DT/DN/ST combo as my core rig. The shared sequencing and other workflow similarities keep my brain and muscle memory relatively uncluttered.

peaceful · 2023-05-19T02:57:38.132Z

Agreed. What is the point of getting a hardware instrument if the interface is awful? The interface is the point! Everything except the interface is emulated to sufficient quality in software.

After a few bad experiences, modern Roland is on my don’t buy list because of this sort of thing. Their stuff sounds good, but it is not worth it.

OldmanChompski · 2023-05-19T03:09:04.203Z

One of the reasons I ended up selling my Peak recently. Knob per function is great but the mod matrix was annoying. Ended up keeping my Hydrasynth. I’ll miss those peak effects but Hydra does a lot more in a very easy to learn package.

(The other reason I got rid of it is I’m focusing more on eurorack and I want tools that can interface with it more, if we want to talk fiddly op should try some eurorack lol)

RobertSyrett · 2023-05-19T03:34:52.731Z

OldmanChompski:

if we want to talk fiddly op should try some eurorack lo

Eurorack CAN be fiddly. But it can also be simple and easy to use. I pared down my rack a few years back to 2 Atlantis modules and few utilities and it was a refreshing change to have these relatively large control areas devoid of patch cables.

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Roger · 2023-05-19T03:55:59.503Z

I share this sentiment and that’s one big reason why M:C is still the Elektron I use the most.

I think it’d be neat if Elektron would try something that focuses more on performance, and less on the sequencer. Sorry forgot to put an unpopular opinion warning.

MichaalHell · 2023-05-19T04:55:03.653Z

This has been my thinking as well.

I’ve been itching for a simple sampler where I can just dump long loops and play them back asynchronous. Had the MK2 and it was basically a paper weight because of how much they crammed in there, it was a bit overwhelming tbh

lowph · 2023-05-19T05:23:34.953Z

This is the fiddliest instrument I know

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leighzi88 · 2023-05-19T05:35:14.706Z

Modor Dr-2 is the opposite of fiddly - big per function knobs and plenty (perhaps too much) real estate! Lovely!

Stone262 · 2023-05-19T06:43:31.037Z

I think this is why I have a love / hate thing going on with iOS music software.

I love all the options and possibilities and find them really inspiring. Where I struggle is in that slightly higher degree of mental and muscle control required to interact with the iPad screen. That’s an experience I would personally describe as fiddly - it’s doable but feels slightly harder than it should.

It’s probably why my iPad lives in it’s Magic Keyboard.

Phone screen is fine because the whole thing is tactile to hold, likewise things like the Blackbox I can anchor a finger on the case or a knob.

It’s like cars with big touchscreens for the controls. Awful experience compared to reaching down and finding part of the fascia to steady your hand and then find the button you need. Big touch screen you can’t do that, you gotta be careful not to press the wrong thing when looking for the right thing.

elek-trick · 2023-05-19T06:58:53.027Z

Why don’t you learn to play the guitar or the piano? No button combos, no menus, no options but it doesn’t mean they’re easy to learn.

obscurerobot · 2023-05-19T07:00:37.915Z

elek-trick:

the piano? No button combos

Do you even chord?

JES · 2023-05-20T02:32:01.520Z

elek-trick:

the guitar or the piano? No button combos, no menus, no options

I have bad news for you.

michaeljk1963 · 2023-05-20T15:19:26.921Z

I don’t disagree with your point. I actually find most Electron stuff pretty straightforward even when there are button combos (Func. plus x). I keep my A4 down in the living room or in a bag with me to the cabin because for noodling around, it beats everything I have and has so much to do in one box. With the OT, it is the WAY you do things that bothers me–having to remember a bunch of different settings to do something as simple as capture a sample and then slice it up the way you want. Once you figure this out, and you’ve done it a few times, it makes perfect sense. Step away for a month or two, though, and then try to remember all the settings and steps–is just… as “fiddly” as it gets.

darenager · 2023-05-20T15:34:34.036Z

I totally get you, I have it with other gear for sure (Deluge, MPC, Force, MC-101/707) I just don’t have it so much with OT because familiarity (12 years) I guess part of the answer is to use these pieces more often to build the muscle memory, but also for gear companies to make more efficient user interfaces. Lately I think I prefer menus over button combos, might be a bit slower, but also easier to remember.

michaeljk1963 · 2023-05-20T16:11:24.438Z

I agree with you in every respect.

Part of the UI is also how you store and then retrieve various kinds of information you’ve saved. It gets really tricky when the UI requires you to save different parts of your presets or patterns in different locations. I still remember how strange it was when I would save a “project“ on my A4 and then come back to it and it would sound totally different, because, of course, I had forgot to save the “kit“ which I know do automatically before turning the machine off.

Soundwrecker · 2023-05-20T16:28:20.858Z

Then comes along something like the Hydrasynth which has so many sound design options that you may never learn them all, yet the UI is such that wherever you go on it, it all seems to make sense and not get in the way.

tha_man · 2023-05-20T18:54:55.117Z

It’s basically having one device that does it all with some shift combos and menu diving vs. multiple devices with simple and direct interfaces but a bunch of cables with noise, sync, patch management, and project saving/recall complications.

I personally don’t mind menus and key combos, if it’s well executed. Digi boxes are cool. In defense of Roland, I also really like the way MC-707 works, it’s very logically laid out on the screen and well thought out for the most part, especially considering how deep the machine is, yet still very hands-on for performance.

But I do prefer simple instruments with dedicated hands-on interface for sounds that I heavily tweak live, like some leads or arps, usually played by a mono.