How to explore a melodic phrase

The Lounge General Discussion
#21

Music creation is getting weird… It used to be all about practicing to increase skills because that’s all there was. With electronics now more and more things can be done automatically by machines. I guess then skills can be applied to other things like organizing the structure and putting things together, adding interesting fx, etc… But those can be kind of automatic too. At some point it seems something’s got to give or the music will just be made for you by the machines you bought, at that point the user is pretty much the same as the audience…

It’s an interesting thing. Does a music maker just want a sonic outcome or do they want to exercise the creative part of their brain to make art? It seems the journey of being creative can be seen as just as or more important than the sonic outcome… Or maybe it’s not to some? Hmmm…

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#22

I’ve played guitar for 26 years now, countless hours of playing. In the beginning it was much harder to come up with stuff. Over the years something happens where you don’t have to think anymore and stuff just comes out, like your synapsis make connections from the part of your mind that hears melodies direct to your fingers. Eventually with enough time and practice there’s less and less separation from what you hear in your head and what you play, it happens at the same time and what you hear in your head at that very same moment your fingers are making the motions and the melody comes out your instrument…

There’s always levels though, if it gets too complex from where I’m at I have to stop and think about it. If it’s super complex and intricate I won’t be able to play it.
Unless I practice more, 26 years later… Which I very much think I should still do.

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#23

It definitely feels like a time where curation is being more highly rewarded than creativity/innovation.

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#24

omg yes. From celebrity playlist curators and DJs to 150+ personnel credits lists. Though I’m not sure that was so different back in the day with famous disc jockeys and “solo” artists getting the best session and studio people. I think we’re just talking about it more these days,

#25

To bring my rambling thoughts more on topic, it takes a lot longer for me to put melodies into midi. That’s why I’ve gone the audio loop route so I can just play stuff. Live recording keyboard midi is a good option but I’m not as good with keys as guitar, maybe I should get a guitar/midi translator box.

I do find that having a musical background helps tremendously still to come up with stuff on the machines. My brain sorta relates everything back to guitar. I love the machines but there very much seems to be less of a mental connection than something like guitar where every finger move creates notes instantaneously. Granted I’ve put in vastly more time toward the guitar than the machines.

I actually need to practice a lot more right now, I haven’t played much guitar in the last year and I’ve been passing on opportunities to play because I don’t feel I’m up with my chops. I suck at practicing, for the past bunch of years practicing has been jamming with friends, but not me just trying to get better at my instrument…

#26

Strongly disagree - playing an instrument and creating music are not the same and can exist independently.

I’m not trying to cast stones here but that “muso” view has been around for decades, the idea that you need to be able to play an instrument or it isn’t music, I know no one meant exactly this but it is important to make the distinction between music created solely by technology, be that AI or weighted random algorithms etc, and music created by a human using technology to do what the human wants it to do.

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#27

I don’t judge anyone and support what anyone wants to do, these are just my rambling thoughts as seen from a guitar player gone electro. Whatever anyone does is fine with me and I don’t see anyone on this planet as being better or worse whether it’s a bum, a president, a virtuoso, or someone who pushes play…

That’s why I proposed those first thoughts a few posts up as a question instead of a statement…
I don’t even know if you were responding to me, but reading through my posts again they seem pretty neutral, at least that was my intention anyway, just sharing perspectives without judgment.

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#28

Aphex Twin isn’t a “musician” in the sense that he doesn’t play an instrument or read music, people like Delia Derbyshire who made music using test equipment and tape recorders were not “musicians” in the traditional sense either, as we all know there are countless other examples of great music created without the composer being a “traditional musician”

Edit - not trying to be defensive or snarky, and I don’t think you were either @Open_Mike

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#29

I strongly encourage you do this. Kill two birds with one stone.

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#30

With all due respect I think your getting overly defensive…
We’re talking about how to get melodies into midi with a few offshoot ramblings that are related…
Personally I absolutely agree with what your saying…

Edit: after reading your edit, nevermind… :smile:

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#31

I don’t think anyone here is saying you have to be a technically skilled musician to make music. I think the point is that in this thread we’re talking about making melodies and it would help transcribing, learning tonal systems, practicing.

If you’re thing is tape loops then you should practice looping and know the inside and outs of your recorders. Same idea.

FWIW I think RDJ did play (re: aisatsana) just “not very well”. I don’t know of any proof but imo he knows something about music theory. My guess is he learned some rules and then just Aphexed them. And being humans and listening to a lot of music and then creating music you pick up and integrate formal rules whether you’re conscious of it or not.

#32

I get the impression he learned from years of listening rather than textbooks.
Listening is the most important skill to develop in music making. Do you like what you’re hearing? That’s what really matters while composing.

And to be a pedant: Aisatsana and his other piano pieces are ‘performed’ by a MIDI programmable Yahama Diskclavier.

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#33

For sure.

OT: I mean obviously he uses it but are you sure aisatsana was too? (Not that I have proof it was performed by him, I just assumed it was considering the technical skill of it)

#34

Undoubtedly practice and “mastering ones craft” is of great importance in any creative endeavour, be that a kid finger drumming on a MPC, a guitarist shredding out a solo, or even a guy coding up some software to make music, to me they are all equally valid and equally important.

The point I was trying to make is that traditional music theory and learning to play a traditional instrument, are not the only means to create amazing music, and are not at all necessary for everyone.

Personally I have never had the desire to learn how to read music or play a traditional instrument because I did not come into music through that route, but equally I can appreciate it and the desire to do so for others, I have a pretty broad taste in music and also rather specific limitations which I place upon myself in my music creation, it has served me well but I’d never suggest it is the only way to go. I think for me learning music theory would hinder me, and possibly push me down a certain route, but I don’t want a route, I’m a rambler (in many senses :joy: )

But I have also experienced a certain amount of snobbery from traditional musicians with their limited views on what and what does not constitute music and musical skill - to be clear I’m not suggesting anyone here is saying this, but I post my thoughts on it to show the other side of the discussion :thup:

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#35

A device is an instrument, I just have loads more experience with a traditional one. For this topic as per OP, we’re talking about melodies based on the 12 note western scale. Whatever you parctice on the more you do the more you’ll realize, OK, if I play a note two steps higher than the first one and then the next two steps higher than that, etc, it will sound like this. The more you do that on the machine or whatever it is eventually you just know and don’t have to think about it anymore… Basically it’s memorizing patterns, relationships between notes. One pattern sounds happy, one sounds sad, etc. if you memorize the patterns even if it’s parameter values the guesswork goes away…

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#36

Exactly this.

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#37

Absolutely! When I was talking about music theory I wasn’t discounting the importance of knowing about what constitutes melody etc but rather the academic approach to it (which I think puts a lot of kids off in early music lessons, but that is another subject!)

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#38

I don’t believe any of us on this thread are in dispute with anything @darenager has said.

I can’t read music and I only know very basic theory, yet my experience on guitar helps me put melodies on the machines, it’s just like that, I can’t say it doesn’t. If I practiced for years on chromatic mode on AR it would probably help me to make melodies on a guitar if I’ve never played one…

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#39

Another interesting point about Aphex Twin is that he often uses his own tunings, anyone who has spent time using a modular synth (especially raw modular without lots of digital conveniences like quantizers etc) has probably dabbled in alternative tuning as well, even if they were concious of it or not.

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#40

yes, as was every piano piece he has done.
Which is remarkable, thinking avril 14th etc was written by programming midi notes.
that‘s why it‘s so strange to play.

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