How to choose monitors that work for me?

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

So I was thinking of getting monitors (finally), and went to the store with some of my tracks. I got good help from the dealer but left confused all the same. My stuff sounded very different on all monitors I tested, and when I said to the dealer that what I want from a set of monitors, is the ones that best tell me where my mix doesn’t work so that I can fix it, he shrugged and said - pick a pair you like within your budget, and learn how they apply to your music.

Sure, I said. Makes sense. But some of these monitors make my stuff sound pretty good. As in, more or less done. On others, my music sounds like it could use some work (in the low end, no surprise). But which is more fair?

So I don’t get it. The Genelecs were those who clearly shouted at me, “You can’t handle this mix!” (which I liked, because I could hear what I needed to adress there and got ideas on the spot), while the Adams went “Your stuff is da shit” (which I didn’t like, cause I know it’s not), and the Yamahas were all like “Meh.” (not sure how I felt about that).

I’m confused. What’s the criteria I should go for here?

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#2

The most important thing is that you already know that you want honest rather than flattering output.

You could tell us about:

  • your budget
  • your room size, geometry, and acoustic treatment
  • where you will put the monitors in relation to room surfaces and other equipment
  • whether you monitor loudly or quietly
  • whether loud bass is a requirement
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#3

Excellent, thanks.

So here’s the situation -

Budget’s up to 1,500€ for the pair.

The room (and this is the real challenge) is non-existant. I work in a small space in our apartment, as part of a bigger area. No treatment. It’s a corner area, so the work table is situated in a corner. We’re talking domestic living area here. Some tell me, monitors are no good unless they’re in a room made for music. Others tell me, pick the right ones and you’ll get far enough anyway.

Not sure about placement, actually. But most likely at the far left and right of the table, so essentially I’ll be in the center, fairly close to them, and it’ll be about 4 feet apart between the pair.

I usually monitor quietly when I do have access to monitors, and tend to crank it up only occassionally to make sure my ears won’t bleed if I push it.

Not sure about the loud bass requirement. What I liked about the Genelecs was the fact that the bass was way loud, in the way that I could clearly tell that I was overdoing the bottom end of my music. So while my stuff sounded pretty bad on them, it was because the bass was so loud and I could easily hear what was wrong and fix it. I didn’t have this experience with the Adams, which made me didn’t like them - as if they weren’t honest to me, saying “This sounds good” and I was like “I don’t believe you.”

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#4

I should add that while my stuff sounded pretty bad on the Genelecs, the engineer who helped me out pointed out that it wasn’t such a bad mix, considering I hadn’t had access to monitoring of any kind and that what was left to do, wasn’t all that messy.

So I kind of liked that I didn’t liked what I heard, if that makes sense?

#5

I’d get monitors with front firing bass ports due to the fact you are working in a room corner.
I’d also be tempted to get a lower cost pair (say £500 max) to start with and get used to working with monitors. You’ll be surprised just how quickly you adjust to them and just how good a mix you can produce with them.

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#6

Yeah, there was a pair of Genelecs for just about that price tag. Considering my space, shelling out is probably spending on something I can’t use anyway. And seeing as I have nothing now, anything will be an improvement.

One bloke pointed out that them Yamahas I looked at, were popular because they sounded just Meh. He said, if you can make stuff sound good on them, I promise you, they’ll sound good on ANYTHING.

Which is exactly what I’m looking for. Around here, when we swap tracks, we tend to listen to them on crap systems - I got a battery-powered Bose, laptop speakers, a set of Marshall headphones. If stuff sounds good on all those systems, it usually sounds good anywhere. Trick is to make them sound good on those systems, then.

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#7

Maybe take a look at the iLoud MTM monitors. They include calibration software that will make them better tuned to your room/listening spot. They have a great frequency response and are meant for monitoring relatively quietly, so they might be a great fit for your needs.

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#8

I owned and used Adam A7’s and Genelec 8030’s in parallel for a few years. I bought the Adams first on recommendation to mix a live TV show, then needed a second pair so as not to carry monitors back and forth from the TV studio to my home studio. So I got the Genelecs just because they are the industry standard and thinking they are very different from the Adams and will at least provide a valuable second opinion. The next season I took the Genelecs to the TV studio exactly for the reason you describe: they immediately shout at you what is wrong with your mix. They are completely unforgiving. Over time I learned that they are a bit flat in the top octave (10K-20K) and initially caused me to boost too much treble, but that is a relatively easy adjustment to make.

I was OK being a bit more ponderous with the Adams at my home studio where time was not so critical, and the Adams were nicer, more easy going company. Both are very good speakers and can yield professional results.

I also tried the Yamahas, but the very initial test of playing some reference music that I know really well showed them to be very hyped in the low end and not really useful as reference speakers. I don’t think you will find many mix engineers that use current Yamahas as their main reference.

Consider this: you invest twice in monitors. First when you invest the money and second when you invest the time to make them the reference for everything you do. This is one reason not to buy a cheap pair and see where it leads, because you will lose the time investment when you swap, even if you don’t lose a lot of money. Also, you can change styles of music, workflows, instruments and the same monitors will still work for you. I bought my Genelecs second hand 10 years ago, to think now that I would have bought something inferior to save 100-200$ back then is probably the worst investment decision I could have made.

No need to buy super-fancy boutique stuff. It needs to be the best reference speaker, not the best speaker period. NS 10’s cost something like 400$ new, but were the industry standard for decades and are still in use (though to be fair you needed a good expensive amp to run them well). €1500 could get you a proper pair of monitors and you may not need to worry about monitors ever again.

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#9

Thanks @Joe_b that’s great advise :+1: what about the room, though? I mean, it is what it is, but is there any point in getting solid monitors when I’m basically working where dirty laundry, dishes and kids’ toys rule the day?

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#10

Did you bring one mix, or did you bring multiple mixes?

#11

Multiple. About five or so. Those that I had a feeling would sound better, also did. But none were great, certainly not on the Genelecs.

#12

I think reading up on placement and setup will help alot even if you dont have any threatment in your room. I think Genelec’s manuals and documentation is very helpfull in this. And since its just physics, it works on all other brands too. One thing i noticed is that Genelec recomends placing the speakers close to the back wall. Even if they have a rear bass port. But they also tell you that it will boost the bass by 6db doing so, so you have to adjust the speakers for that.

I bought a set of Genelecs with a sub last year. My friends are telling me that they have noticed that my mixes sounds better now. And thats just my regular jams, and not something ive spent time on. So monitors can help with that.

Another important thing is to get to know your monitors. Or maybe more correctly adjust yourself to the monitors. I have used some Sennheiser HD600 headphones for 15 years making music. And after a little break from making music i couldnt mix on them anymore. Everything sounded like crap when i used them. I was convinced they where broken. But after alot of checking, i suddenly remembered that i started using a small cheap sony headset for my sofa surfing. And i had been so used to the overly hyped bass on those. So everything sounded flat and boring on the HD600. And i automatically started adjusting my music to sound like stuff i heard on the cheap Sony headphones.

Thats how i “learned” the importance of referencing a profesional produced track when doing the final mix. Then you get a better “view” if something lacks, or sticks out on your mixes.

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#13

Dirty laundry doesn’t sound any worse than clean laundry. Seriously though, I have no idea how good or bad your space sounds, and how loud and how often you will get to use your monitors. Mine are mostly switched off these days so as not to wake the kid or bug my wife. Some domestic environments sound quite reasonable without special treatment, especially in northern Europe where your homes are all wood and carpet and vaulted ceilings.

It seems like you spend quite a bit of time on your music and results matter to you, and it is possible to put your monitors in a box and take them somewhere to do some mixing. Besides, times change, kids grow up, and one day your studio will grow into your monitors which you will then know like the back of your hand.

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#14

1500 is a nice budget. I have the 8330 Genelec’s in an untreated room, and their box and microphone for automatically calibrating them. It works pretty well and might fit within the budget.

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#15

Yep, they had one of those too, just about worked within my budget. They were slightly kinder to my music, but still harsh :slight_smile: tough love. I like it.

#16

That’s King Solomon advise right there. To get them and just learn them, and take it from there. I got some reference pieces I always go to, learning those in that space should go some way to get something out of these monitors.

I got perhaps two things going for me then - my family’s very tolerant to my music making and in fact, they kind of enjoy it from time to time. So chances are, I’ll get to use the monitors quite often and they won’t tell me to shut up if I turn it up occassionally.

Second, my floor’s oak, only outer walls are concrete and the ones where I work are plaster. Hell, I even got some carpets close to where I’m sat.

And honestly, I listened to these monitors in a store space which was far from untreated, def not worse than where they’d be in my home. And that still was a worthwhile experience.

#17

Get a good pair of open back headphones like the sennheiser hd650s or higher and spend the extra cash you saved on plugins. I could rant about headphones vs monitors for ages (and probably will come back to this thread and do so) but if you dont have a decently treated room you’re better off using headphones.

Edit: Okay I’ll start the rant now since in waiting at a coffee shop for someone.

I think the biggest difference in mixes comes from experience. The only monitors I’ve ever owned are monoprice, and I thought when I bought a pair of sennheiser HD 600s that my mixes would sound way better and a magic wand would be waved–but I was wrong. The bass was still muddy and the high end still hurt my ears.

It wasn’t until I decided to consciously fix these problems and use reference mixes (on headphones, monitors, car, crappy earbuds) that my mixes got better. Finally, just in the last few months, I’m starting to feel that my mixes are smooth, balanced, warm, rounded–listening situation be damned.

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#18

I’d second trying a really nice pair of headphones. After I clicked “buy” on my first pair of expensive open back studio headphones I thought I was nuts. But now I know the sound so well I practically don’t need monitors (my mixes aren’t perfect, probably far from it). The bass doesn’t sound “fun” on my headphones, but I know how I should hear it for it to translate well. I’d recommend this as well. I know what muddy mids sound like on them, I know what bad high end sounds like on them. Its amazing what you can hear when you learn a pair of headphones.

If you are set on getting monitors honestly the guy at the store wasn’t wrong. Just pick the ones whose sound you favor and learn them. This especially applies if you are just going to plop them in an not ideal space w/o treatment because you’ll have to learn what they sound like in that space to make them useful.

You can also get software and a microphone that allows you to measure your mixing space and will do a master bus EQ adjustment in your DAW to make your monitors sound more accurate. A friend of mine that works in a corner with brickwalls uses this and swears by it.

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#19

My personal preference is to go for monitors that I enjoy mixing on and to learn them, I don’t want to be listening to stuff that I can’t get a vibe on and it does all come down to learning through referencing.

I generally use my KEF LSX’s and Shure SRH1840 headphones to produce (love them both) on and then reference at certain points on my Adams A7, in-ear pods.

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#20

Yep, I got a set of AKG 712, have been on them since 2015. No doubt they’ve done a lot of good. Maybe getting another pair of cans for second opinion reference is the better way to go here?