How to avoid the 'contrived' Live Performance

shigginpit · 2023-05-03T10:08:04.424Z

Just to clarify (although it’s mostly semantics) my intent was to say that the composer / arranger / performer is the only person invested in or thinking about how genuine they believe their own set / arrangement to be.

But clearly everyone who posted cares, otherwise they wouldn’t have all this solid advice, it’s just that each cares about representing their own vision due to their pride in craft. I still believe the majority of spectators at a performance haven’t the faintest clue if you pressed play on song mode or looped everything live. So long as they like what they hear, they don’t want to know.

w-lf · 2023-05-03T10:13:32.288Z

Yes, sorry, didn’t mean to put words in your mouth. I had understood your comment the way you clarified it. Thanks!

mabelsound · 2023-05-03T10:14:23.671Z

My bandmate and I do—I guess you’d call it—ambient techno that’s improvisational by design. We only agree on a few things ahead of time, a key and tempo if it’s a short piece, or several keys and tempos if longer, and signal the changes to each other. We might discuss tone and style a little, and I’ll design new sounds ahead of time, but patterns are created on the fly. I admit to just using arpeggiation a fair amount. We record our records this way too.

I saw a concert/lecture where Suzanne Ciani said she’s been using the same patterns for decades and mixing and matching them live! She’s made an entire, very diverse oeuvre out of them.

anokah · 2023-05-03T14:52:38.218Z

I think there is an element here when it comes to visual cues. Our total experience of a musical performance is guided, amongst a host of other factors, by both visual and auditive cues, and the interaction between these.

So basically, seeing someone perform an action that leads to a synchronous sonic result is different than just hearing the sonic result. This is kind of obvious with traditional instruments, but the same thing can be experienced by seeing an electronic music performer trigger a sample, or a DJ getting more into the music as the drop hits.

There is musicology research done on this topic, which I swear I read through, so I have at least some basis for this rambling

But it has little to do with op, so to stay a bit on topic, I’ll throw in this:

As a concept, I would think about this in the Karenn mould. That is, have some prepared parts, improvise some parts, then loop something that works, use FX to extend and flesh out those loops, drop back into other prearranged parts. Rinse and repeat.

Dr.K · 2023-05-03T16:54:26.345Z

Learn to improvise and you’re free. But it takes a lot of practice. And balls.

shigginpit · 2023-05-03T20:47:32.202Z

Contrived is a word generally used to convey a condition of generic, predictable, or kitsch. I’m not making any statements regarding interaction with a crowd or the impact of a musicians visual / auditory signaling that things are building or something is happening, in regard to the topic and again just to clarify:

I’ve seen people listening to what I felt was a completely generic and contrived sounding performance (I am the hater you seek) and being super hyped off it. But at the same time I’ve watched performances where after the artist is beating themself up over a tiny aspect or mistake that they didn’t like, or that the song order could have been better, or the sound had too much mid-range presence - things like that. Meanwhile I was thinking:

a) I wouldn’t have noticed if you didn’t say anything, and
b) I enjoyed it and I’m pretty critical of technicalities.

So my comments are in regard to, ultimately, the specific notion of something being or feeling contrived, and not the merit or demerit of visual or sonic impact translated by the performer’s physical actions onstage.

natehorn · 2023-05-03T20:57:11.178Z

shigginpit:

Contrived is a word generally used to convey a condition of generic, predictable, or kitsch.

We’re drifting into semantics but contrived means that something lacks authenticity. A contrived performance is one that isn’t genuine, is low effort, phoned-in.

I’m not sure it’s the right description for the topic tbh…

shigginpit · 2023-05-03T20:58:23.318Z

Your mental thesaurus is superior to mine

natehorn · 2023-05-03T20:59:47.296Z

You used the word kitsch that gets thesaurus points regardless

shigginpit · 2023-05-03T21:00:56.528Z

Mr Webster says having an unnatural or false appearance or quality : artificial, labored

Let’s just default to that we’re both talking about this same concept.

captain8 · 2023-05-03T21:02:00.116Z

badegg303:

So I’ve been using my Octatrack and Digitakt to create a live set, I’ve so far got around 20 minutes but im starting to find that it i becoming too stale and planned out.
Any advice or ideas for avoiding this? how to make the boxes performable?

interesting question
just try to make yourself as comfortable as possible with the material you have, and experiment.

VibKo · 2023-05-03T21:02:04.274Z

It’s a question with many answers depending on who you ask:)

My approach is to prepare material that can become something rather than already being a complete musical statement.

These can be very simple things but can be quite effective. On the OT there are lots of nice ways to do things with scenes. Not just effects but crossfading between tracks. Have silent rhythmic parts where you control the volume with the fader. Scan between loops with the fader etc.

Anyway, what I’m trying to get at is that there are different ways to approach what a live performance is and from my perspective I find it much more engaging to have building blocks that can be moulded into something rather than pre composing a track and finding a way to recreate it live.

I mean you still have sort of tracks but in a much more starting point kind of way😊

natehorn · 2023-05-03T21:05:53.741Z

shigginpit:

having an unnatural or false appearance or quality : artificial, labored

That’s pretty much exactly what I said

thermionic · 2023-05-03T21:13:06.507Z

anokah:

So basically, seeing someone perform an action that leads to a synchronous sonic result is different than just hearing the sonic result. This is kind of obvious with traditional instruments, but the same thing can be experienced by seeing an electronic music performer trigger a sample, or a DJ getting more into the music as the drop hits.

It’s definitely possible with our tools, CTRL-ALL, and multiple loops/tone generators for a great amount of live performance can go into cacophony with relatively unnoticed visual cues, and it can be hard for a less concerned person to keep up with what’s ground up and what’s miming to a fully programmed set, choreographing visual flourish(es) at moments of great energy help.

How can you move from one device to another?
Do you have other interfaces to pivot to (drum pads, for example?)
Can you start up live looping with a more analog instrument, perhaps with “imperfections” to build off?

What degree of “safety” v “risk” are you comfortable with leaving on the table?

shigginpit · 2023-05-03T21:22:39.709Z

Whether something that is low effort inherently represents something which is disingenuous is not clear to me. You are correct, genuine and authentic are synonymous with each other. I’m not arguing that you are perceiving the words of the dictionary incorrectly or that your meaning is lost on me.

captain8 · 2023-05-03T21:25:27.419Z

badegg303:

So I’ve been using my Octatrack and Digitakt to create a live set, I’ve so far got around 20 minutes but im starting to find that it i becoming too stale and planned out.
Any advice or ideas for avoiding this? how to make the boxes performable?

will this be your first time performing, if not how did you approach performing in the past?

ccr · 2023-05-04T05:30:07.876Z

Great advice in this discussion. I have started to work on 30-40 min full improvisation, and I have found it very helpful to record and listen, especially to see what works in terms of progressions, transitions, and effects. I also find it helpful to define and imagine the audience and setting in which you wish to perform.

chaocrator · 2023-05-04T07:02:14.421Z

here’s my approach with Elektron-style sequencer (i still call it RM1x-style ):
– make more patterns than needed for a track (incl. transitions)
– jam with them to get used to tweaking stuff
– when performing, choose only some of patterns. when performing next time, choose some different patterns.

what_lives · 2023-05-04T07:17:30.128Z

If sounding contrived is a problem, then the only thing you can do is to be 100% yourself unapologetically. The worst approach one could ever take is trying to appease an audience.

If the music feel stale or planned out as you put it, I’d agree with those who suggests being more playful about it. God knows I’ve made music making a tedious chore in the past, and the only way I could get out of that was to bring in some playful chaos into the equation.

Martebar · 2023-05-04T07:23:05.003Z

One approach that can be interesting is assigning two roles to your boxes: one that would be the “backing band”, the safety net that you could rely on for your backing tracks and loops, while the other could be your wild card, the thing you improvise, have fun and take risks on, knowing you can always go back to safety with the other box.
That way, you get to really spend a ton of time on the wild card box so it becomes your very own instrument that you know every features of, you can take to wild places and bring and unexpected edge to your set with.