How to avoid the 'contrived' Live Performance

d_hansen · 2023-05-02T18:07:48.244Z

This isn’t as relevant to the OT but “Sound” system on the DT (and other Elektron boxes) is very handy for improvisation. You can just spend long sessions creating banks of Sounds that you can load to tracks, sequence, and tweak on the fly. It would be awesome if there were a way to generate a kit of randomly selected sounds but I’m sure there are strategies for save kits/patterns without remembering exactly what slots they’re in so that you can let them surprise you when you load them.

GurtTractor · 2023-05-02T18:09:32.169Z

d_hansen:

generate a kit of randomly selected sounds

I wouldn’t be surpised if there’s some creative ways of using software like Octachainer for this purpose.

DJSpaceP · 2023-05-02T18:31:12.364Z

This has been fundamental to my approach for years. Every performance is different, even with the same core material.

shigginpit · 2023-05-02T19:37:50.045Z

You and maybe a handful of haters are the only ones at a live show who would ever think about if someone’s live set feels contrived, everyone else is just there enjoying the music.

But everyone here has said something that can be taken to heart, so my best advice is make yourself happy, and when you’re happy with what you have, then even those handful of haters might come around.

w-lf · 2023-05-03T09:14:24.032Z

Interesting question. Working with hardware has made me think a lot what it means to play “live”. There’s a whole spectrum on this with an improvising jazz band on one end and a DJ playing a prerecorded mix on the other. In between there’s a big grey area, eg. a well rehearsed finger drum work-out vs using the OT to mix fully mastered tracks vs a rock band that plays a super tight set, etc. … Anyways, as @shigginpit points out, you’re the only person that cares about this.

To answer your question however: For me playing live is the most fun when I approach it as a DJ set:

I make a lot of tracks where the harmonies blend well together (see mix in key chart below). I then use live loopers to mix these tracks together, and because the melodies fit well together it’s easy to come up with new & creative combinations (e.g. looping pads from pattern X with the lead of pattern Y, then mixing in the drums of pattern Z).
For a live set I would for example start in C minor (5A), then work my way up to E minor (9A) and then back. I know that some artists push this even further and just make everything in one key, but I think that this can sound a bit boring after a while. Playing a track in C major after a long walk in minor scales can be quite magical
Each of my tracks has elements that can be used to match the energy level. For example: Adding a nice percussive loop and nice strings when playing a bit slower or adding a harsh hihat and stripping away other elements when playing a bit faster. On the Syntakt I can also easily adjust the kick to make it sound more aggressive or softer. This way each track can be bent to a softer or harder version.
I usually have a good idea of how the sequence will look like (e.g. start & ending track + 2-3 key tracks), but I add extra options to match the vibe of the dance floor: e.g. have 4-5 warm-up tracks ready (all in a similar key), but if the room is ready to dance then just play one of them and bring in the beats earlier.

Hope this helps!

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shigginpit · 2023-05-03T10:08:04.424Z

Just to clarify (although it’s mostly semantics) my intent was to say that the composer / arranger / performer is the only person invested in or thinking about how genuine they believe their own set / arrangement to be.

But clearly everyone who posted cares, otherwise they wouldn’t have all this solid advice, it’s just that each cares about representing their own vision due to their pride in craft. I still believe the majority of spectators at a performance haven’t the faintest clue if you pressed play on song mode or looped everything live. So long as they like what they hear, they don’t want to know.

w-lf · 2023-05-03T10:13:32.288Z

Yes, sorry, didn’t mean to put words in your mouth. I had understood your comment the way you clarified it. Thanks!

mabelsound · 2023-05-03T10:14:23.671Z

My bandmate and I do—I guess you’d call it—ambient techno that’s improvisational by design. We only agree on a few things ahead of time, a key and tempo if it’s a short piece, or several keys and tempos if longer, and signal the changes to each other. We might discuss tone and style a little, and I’ll design new sounds ahead of time, but patterns are created on the fly. I admit to just using arpeggiation a fair amount. We record our records this way too.

I saw a concert/lecture where Suzanne Ciani said she’s been using the same patterns for decades and mixing and matching them live! She’s made an entire, very diverse oeuvre out of them.

anokah · 2023-05-03T14:52:38.218Z

I think there is an element here when it comes to visual cues. Our total experience of a musical performance is guided, amongst a host of other factors, by both visual and auditive cues, and the interaction between these.

So basically, seeing someone perform an action that leads to a synchronous sonic result is different than just hearing the sonic result. This is kind of obvious with traditional instruments, but the same thing can be experienced by seeing an electronic music performer trigger a sample, or a DJ getting more into the music as the drop hits.

There is musicology research done on this topic, which I swear I read through, so I have at least some basis for this rambling

But it has little to do with op, so to stay a bit on topic, I’ll throw in this:

As a concept, I would think about this in the Karenn mould. That is, have some prepared parts, improvise some parts, then loop something that works, use FX to extend and flesh out those loops, drop back into other prearranged parts. Rinse and repeat.

Dr.K · 2023-05-03T16:54:26.345Z

Learn to improvise and you’re free. But it takes a lot of practice. And balls.

shigginpit · 2023-05-03T20:47:32.202Z

Contrived is a word generally used to convey a condition of generic, predictable, or kitsch. I’m not making any statements regarding interaction with a crowd or the impact of a musicians visual / auditory signaling that things are building or something is happening, in regard to the topic and again just to clarify:

I’ve seen people listening to what I felt was a completely generic and contrived sounding performance (I am the hater you seek) and being super hyped off it. But at the same time I’ve watched performances where after the artist is beating themself up over a tiny aspect or mistake that they didn’t like, or that the song order could have been better, or the sound had too much mid-range presence - things like that. Meanwhile I was thinking:

a) I wouldn’t have noticed if you didn’t say anything, and
b) I enjoyed it and I’m pretty critical of technicalities.

So my comments are in regard to, ultimately, the specific notion of something being or feeling contrived, and not the merit or demerit of visual or sonic impact translated by the performer’s physical actions onstage.

natehorn · 2023-05-03T20:57:11.178Z

shigginpit:

Contrived is a word generally used to convey a condition of generic, predictable, or kitsch.

We’re drifting into semantics but contrived means that something lacks authenticity. A contrived performance is one that isn’t genuine, is low effort, phoned-in.

I’m not sure it’s the right description for the topic tbh…

shigginpit · 2023-05-03T20:58:23.318Z

Your mental thesaurus is superior to mine

natehorn · 2023-05-03T20:59:47.296Z

You used the word kitsch that gets thesaurus points regardless

shigginpit · 2023-05-03T21:00:56.528Z

Mr Webster says having an unnatural or false appearance or quality : artificial, labored

Let’s just default to that we’re both talking about this same concept.

captain8 · 2023-05-03T21:02:00.116Z

badegg303:

So I’ve been using my Octatrack and Digitakt to create a live set, I’ve so far got around 20 minutes but im starting to find that it i becoming too stale and planned out.
Any advice or ideas for avoiding this? how to make the boxes performable?

interesting question
just try to make yourself as comfortable as possible with the material you have, and experiment.

VibKo · 2023-05-03T21:02:04.274Z

It’s a question with many answers depending on who you ask:)

My approach is to prepare material that can become something rather than already being a complete musical statement.

These can be very simple things but can be quite effective. On the OT there are lots of nice ways to do things with scenes. Not just effects but crossfading between tracks. Have silent rhythmic parts where you control the volume with the fader. Scan between loops with the fader etc.

Anyway, what I’m trying to get at is that there are different ways to approach what a live performance is and from my perspective I find it much more engaging to have building blocks that can be moulded into something rather than pre composing a track and finding a way to recreate it live.

I mean you still have sort of tracks but in a much more starting point kind of way😊

natehorn · 2023-05-03T21:05:53.741Z

shigginpit:

having an unnatural or false appearance or quality : artificial, labored

That’s pretty much exactly what I said

thermionic · 2023-05-03T21:13:06.507Z

anokah:

So basically, seeing someone perform an action that leads to a synchronous sonic result is different than just hearing the sonic result. This is kind of obvious with traditional instruments, but the same thing can be experienced by seeing an electronic music performer trigger a sample, or a DJ getting more into the music as the drop hits.

It’s definitely possible with our tools, CTRL-ALL, and multiple loops/tone generators for a great amount of live performance can go into cacophony with relatively unnoticed visual cues, and it can be hard for a less concerned person to keep up with what’s ground up and what’s miming to a fully programmed set, choreographing visual flourish(es) at moments of great energy help.

How can you move from one device to another?
Do you have other interfaces to pivot to (drum pads, for example?)
Can you start up live looping with a more analog instrument, perhaps with “imperfections” to build off?

What degree of “safety” v “risk” are you comfortable with leaving on the table?

shigginpit · 2023-05-03T21:22:39.709Z

Whether something that is low effort inherently represents something which is disingenuous is not clear to me. You are correct, genuine and authentic are synonymous with each other. I’m not arguing that you are perceiving the words of the dictionary incorrectly or that your meaning is lost on me.