How much do returns hurt stores?

ddiamond84 · 2023-05-21T18:57:37.812Z

I try hard to keep the gear I buy, and shop at smaller stores if possible to show support.

I bought the Motor Synth from Perfect Circuit this week. An expensive synth! After literally ten minutes, I boxed it up and returned it. The synth was basically unused, the packaging barely touched (I packed it up to how it looked new and was careful about unpacking. There wasn’t even a deal to break on the box!)

I saw today that it’s not listed as b-stock for several hundred dollars less on their site. Their b-stock has a no return policy.

Do returns cost them a lot of lost income? I try to buy from them a lot, and mostly keep what I buy with the occasional returns here and there over the years. They used to do a 15% restock no matter what but now it’s no fee as long as it’s within 14 days I believe.

I always wonder how much a store’s return policy impacts them…

FWIW I’m local and so in perfect circuits case I pick up and return by hand.

lowph · 2023-05-21T19:03:49.121Z

Well, they have to pay for shipping to and from the first customer who bought it and returned it. Then they have to list it for less money. After that, they still have to pay to ship it to the next customer. I would say it’s not great for their bottom line, but the expectations of some returns must be built into the markup on stock.

Yeah, I would probably avoid doing it. I’ve done it myself once or twice and didn’t feel great about, but it was when I thought the instrument sounded far worse than all the demos I’d heard.

Highways_Gothica · 2023-05-21T19:08:22.836Z

I wouldn’t feel too much guilt as long as its not a recurring thing. I’ve returned stuff before just from not vibing with it. As you said, some stores offer returns with a restocking fee so there are ways they protect their margin as well.

thermionic · 2023-05-21T19:14:02.093Z

ddiamond84:

Do returns cost them a lot of lost income?

There is a certain cost of doing business that involves this, good customer service should allow for a float of regret or reasons why things just don’t work out, of course they mostly don’t do the scale of sales that allow for Costco or similar level return policy.

Be mindful of your habits and it’s a lot easier for yourself to not buy over risking returns, and if you’re returning regularly that’s an anti pattern addressable on your end…

ddiamond84 · 2023-05-21T19:15:22.289Z

Fwiw I picked it up in store and returned it in store. I’m local so at least there’s that!

ddiamond84 · 2023-05-21T19:18:07.118Z

Also fwiw most places at minimum make you pay the return shipping fee. Some also charge for their shipping fee as well if there’s a return.

shigginpit · 2023-05-21T19:27:24.794Z

It’s really difficult to say how much is lost without knowing the exact markup but as was mentioned, there is a cost of doing business and an expectation that if you offer a return or exchange policy, that within the normal course of doing business there will be returns and exchanges. B stock items still tend to be priced above “cost” so they aren’t losing anything, but moreover they aren’t losing a customer. 5-15% restocking fees have a way of deterring future business which is probably why they did away with it.

If you’re buying new, you have paid a certain premium that allows for what some industries call a cooling down period, but in traditional US retailers it’s just this return/exchange window. It’s not on the the macro scale of a manufacturer accepting back unsold product or doing warranty exchanges, but a small business is still a business. There is a cost associated with just being a brick and mortar store, but it’s not your fault they are doing busines as a B&M. Also if they would offer free shipping otherwise, by you picking it up, it does save them some money in that regard. The cost of shipping is not equal to the cost of putting an item in B stock, but let’s say someone buys the B stock item and now they’re still back above cost, that person is happy, you’re happy, and people who are happy will come back again.

In other retail industries or even larger music stores they work with distributors and brand reps and there are allowances for if product doesn’t sell - it’s just to say that not all the product a store has may be something they bought in bulk ahead of time, sort of like how the frito lays guy goes to the grocery store and changes out the potato chips with fresh ones.

I’m not sure if perfect circuit operates that way with some of their business associates, but as a company that deals with boutique items I would wager at least some of their product is carried on contingency of sale, perhaps after sale and return it becomes their responsibility contractually to resell but I don’t think they’re unprepared.

My point is don’t be an asshat, but don’t feel guilty about returning something you aren’t happy with.

maymind_trax · 2023-05-21T19:28:07.743Z

I think they mostly hurt the store’s feelings. I hope you also apologized when you returned it, D!!

No in all seriousness I think PC is gonna be just fine! Don’t worry!

Buenez69 · 2023-05-21T19:41:05.648Z

I’m probably going to get a lot of hate for this but i took it to the next level. About eight months ago I bought Teenage Engineering OP-1 Field from some music shop in USA. I can’t remember which store it was…
I was living in Mexico at the time so I had to pay an extra five hundred for the tax which is just absurd but oh well.
I noticed that there was some thing moving around inside and after contacting teenage engineering support they said it would be better for me to send it back. Well, after spending all that money, there was no way I was gonna have them keep it for another month and then have to wait for it to be shipped back to Mexico and possibly be lost so I just kept it .
A month ago I arrived in Florida to visit my mother and I brought my OP-1 field with me. I noticed Amazon had next day shipment for the OP-1 … To make a long story short I bought a new one and when it came in I returned the old one and got my money back. Do I feel bad about doing this not at all, it’s not my problem that teenage engineering charge an arm and a leg and then i get a broken unit. F them ! I actually felt great about doing this…. Eff Amazon as well… hahah

ddiamond84 · 2023-05-21T19:53:51.578Z

cutlery · 2023-05-21T19:54:01.656Z

Returns are the cost of doing business with access to a larger pool of customers than only those within driving distance. Competitors offer the possibility of returns (often now without restocking fees). I wouldn’t shop at a local store that doesn’t accept returns, either.

For a retailer that does most of its business online, that’s essentially the same as a demo program; and the demos eventually get sold.

Plus, where else will those minty open box b-stock units come from?

ddiamond84 · 2023-05-21T20:05:58.683Z

Good point about minty b stock! If anyone wants a truly same as new motor mk2 synth, perfect circuit has one for a few hundred off!

plragde · 2023-05-21T20:11:15.834Z

shigginpit:

My point is don’t be an asshat, but don’t feel guilty about returning something you aren’t happy with.

This is pretty much good advice across the board. Try to respect the spirit of any given policy, rather than push it to the edges and possibly beyond.

HotdogLothario · 2023-05-21T20:14:28.650Z

Buenez69:

it’s not my problem that teenage engineering charge an arm and a leg and then i get a broken unit. F them ! I actually felt great about doing this…. Eff Amazon as well… hahah

I’ll probably get flagged for saying this, but you’re not a good person.

Edit: Just noticed this was your first post. Welcome to the forum.

HotdogLothario · 2023-05-21T20:15:47.600Z

ddiamond84:

I bought the Motor Synth from Perfect Circuit this week.

Just curious, what didn’t you like about the Motor Synth?

ddiamond84 · 2023-05-21T20:18:22.821Z

It was unfathomably loud. Like no matter how good the actual synth sounded, it wouldn’t be worth it to me because it was uncomfortable to have on in my place. It wasn’t a cool loud either! Just shrill and annoying (the motors).

I don’t mean to put down anyone else’s experience with it, it’s very unique. But that was a no go for me. I also wasn’t a big fan of the UI and how the menu worked. I thought it would be more immediate.

ddiamond84 · 2023-05-21T20:19:12.835Z

They get some points for honesty though

rex_mundii · 2023-05-21T20:33:36.556Z

For the 2 Australian retailers I tend to buy from: one of them lets you exchange for credit towards item of same or greater value (or used to); other one has plenty of open box deals but has a restocking fee for change of mind returns. For both of them you’re s’posed to keep the packaging in good condition.

Don’t imagine returns are hurting them too much since they get their dollariedoos one way or another.

HotdogLothario · 2023-05-21T20:37:19.386Z

ddiamond84:

It was unfathomably loud

That’s too bad. It looks badass.

Buenez69 · 2023-05-21T20:41:43.764Z

No problem. I thought most people wouldn’t agree with what i did, but TE needs to have better quality control if they are going to charge outrageous prices. In the end my broken machine will go to them anyhow.