How do you write bass lines?

Octagonist · 2023-05-30T15:03:21.783Z

I had come to understand “pocket” to mean “when the groove clicks and everyone’s vibing”. Maybe I read the wrong sources.

dialectric · 2023-05-30T15:06:15.476Z

true fact, you can prove this by listening to music where the bass is mainly 808 subs in octaves and thirds/fifths.

keygen.exe · 2023-05-30T15:11:18.019Z

It’s a corny and uselessly vague term. Wish it would go away

LCVL · 2023-05-30T15:18:43.375Z

“Pocket” is when bass and drums (and/or other elements of the rhythm section) sit in the same groove.

Akio_Daku · 2023-05-30T15:50:42.756Z

I reckon the pocket is laying it back on the 2 and the 4. Like you could say “Put the snare in the pocket and swing the ride” you know what I mean?

Octagonist · 2023-05-30T15:59:56.870Z

The person who taught me the phrase “in the pocket” didn’t use it like that. Nor like the way I suggested above, nor like the way @MichaalHell used it. He was a choirmaster and we had no drums

So… I think @keygen.exe might be right…

keygen.exe:

It’s a corny and uselessly vague term. Wish it would go away

DrOrthogonal · 2023-05-30T16:49:51.572Z

I was interested in your comment about not using an arp…I wondered what your viewpoint was here?
I just created my last track by trying starting the process with an arpeggiated bass line and liked it.

bibenu · 2023-05-30T17:03:04.140Z

I don’t believe there is one unambiguous definition of ‘pocket’ … like ‘groove’ it means different things to different people.

MichaalHell · 2023-05-30T17:20:44.710Z

Lol, as this post shows

Octagonist · 2023-05-30T17:46:16.844Z

This thread is required reading for the topic at hand.

LCVL · 2023-05-31T14:06:37.509Z

Just the first 15 seconds.

sinktothesea · 2023-05-31T15:50:06.798Z

Starting the process with an arpeggiated bass line and then tweaking it, sure, I am totally down for that. Any source of inspiration is good. My point about arps (arpeggiators) was really about not using an arp to generate the whole bass line for you. I do not know of any arps that are specifically coded to generate bass lines or progressions, and certainly none that will accent, slide, and modulate the bass line for you.

A personal opinion that may be unduly influencing my perspective: I think that bass parts (for string bass, electric bass, tuba) written for classical, polka, jazz, etc., that are arpeggios simply sound pretty bad, and at best predictable. It is like the composer writes the bass part last, or thinks that bass is unimportant melodically, or basically has little clue of what to do.

g3o2 · 2023-05-31T17:05:48.878Z

sinktothesea:

I do not know of any arps that are specifically coded to generate bass lines or progressions, and certainly none that will accent, slide, and modulate the bass line for you.

so you don’t know KARMA ? That’s exactly what it does, albeit it remains machine generated with seed randomness …

It is like the composer writes the bass part last, or thinks that bass is unimportant melodically, or basically has little clue of what to do.

That was until recently often my issue with bass. As a pianist, bass is not the same as bass

maymind_trax · 2023-05-31T18:39:55.294Z

Something that I find interesting about writing bass lines is the complexity of the part will greatly vary depending on when in the session I work on the bass part. If I’m working on something with a lot of drums, I have a great melody going and things are flowing, I’ll usually add bass almost last and just add something that is pretty simple and reinforces whats already happening, maybe doubling a few melodic lines. However if I’m starting with drums and bass and trying to create a groove that gets me going, I almost always make a bass part that is overly complex and has too much going on. I’ll often then strip it back when other instruments are added. Anyone else relate?

elxsound · 2023-05-31T18:49:17.288Z

Exactly, because context does make a difference.

Is the bass a focal point, is it supportive, is it the time keeper and then knowing bass can be all of those at different points or simultaneously.

Then, is it funky, is it busy, mellow or simple. Is it melodic, or percusssive? Does it push the rhythm, drag it back.

If someone were to listen to all of the songs posted, they would find a wide range of approach to playing bass and its role in the song, just as much as the individual definition of good or great bass.

g3o2 · 2023-06-01T01:29:17.554Z

I can certainly relate to this. In order to reserve some space for bass during the songwriting process and to make the outcome less dependent on the order in which I write the parts, I have become more careful with:

huge or dense chords, instead using sparse versions more often,
notes played in the lower register, reserved for a few select sounds only,
the use of reverb, especially on pads, instead adapting the amp env release time of the sound,
stereo sounds, now recording mono (and/or without stereo effects) more often, especially for fat and lush analog sounds.

LCVL · 2023-06-01T05:09:29.218Z

Yes, it’s called arranging.

Leonsarmiento · 2023-06-03T12:20:43.361Z

Study the Maestro:

MellowTron · 2023-06-03T18:14:53.626Z

Do you find that using mono for those fat analogue sounds helps? I would think that would make things sound ‘smaller’

g3o2 · 2023-06-03T22:03:28.675Z

Mono and fat analog, in the low end that’s usually not a small thing. If it was small by any bad chance, there are plenty of ways to make it bigger at the mixing phase: e.g. EQ, compression, mono chorus, a second bass sound, etc… In any case, what you don’t want is a muddy low end and stereo apparently gets you easier into that muddy territory.

A sound tech once complained to me that my song was all stereo lanes and therefore difficult to mix. That’s when I first grew aware that mono was perhaps a thing. At first, I did not really understand why it was a big deal though, I thought, “well yeah, synths are stereo by design, of course, aren’t they?” Then I got a Prophet 10, mono only, as well as some books on mixing, and only then I kind of understood the issue. That said, the tech managed to mix and master my song, despite the everything stereo.

To quote some books I’ve read:

“You always want your sub bass in the middle. Never pan your sub frequencies. In fact, set all frequencies below 120hz to mono. You can, however add stereo width to bass frequencies above 120hz.” (excerpt from The Process for electronic music production, Jason Timothy)

“The dominant center is an obvious choice to locate the most prominent music element (like the lead vocal) but also the kick drum, bass guitar and even the snare drum. While putting the bass and kick “up the middle” makes for a musically coherent and generally accepted mix technique, its origins date back to the era of vinyl records.“ (excerpt from The Mixing engineer’s handbook, Bobby Oswinski)

“From a technical standpoint, there are good reasons for putting the most important musical elements of your mix in the middle of the stereo image, because they’ll be the ones that survive best in mono and in situations where only one side of a stereo signal is heard. In most cases, this means that your kick, snare, bass, and any solo lead vocal will normally inhabit the center. This is particularly important for the bass instruments, …” (excerpt from Mixing secrets for the small studio, Mike Senior)