Hold Time

bob1 · 2015-03-24T15:01:22.000Z

hated most digital synths, from dx to virus, only the MOS 6581 is forcing me there from time to time and I’m open for some quirky aesthetics like eurorack braids and DIY digital stuff. Would never even consider to judge the synthesis as weak or something, if I want strong I’ll fire up my Mos-lab 16a, but it’s not comparable to say an ataraxic translatron or atari punk console, just a different different approach. And I find that clicky clacky Monomachine dead sexy but the last two dsi machines make me run away

Stickhit · 2015-03-24T15:17:02.000Z

A quick example to hear how hold values slightly affect the sound (as opposed to just holding the note length).

Clear a track, load the SID engine, set the wave to mix and all other parameters to off/zero. Set the amp ATK and REL to zero. Set the hold to 6 and the decay to 24.

Tap a pad to hear the sound which should have a buzz to it. Now if you set the hold back to zero you should find that you can’t achieve that exact buzz no matter where you set the decay.

Don’t own an analog synth and never have (though I have played a couple). I recognise DSI but am not familiar with the other synths you have named.

bob1 · 2015-03-24T22:26:32.000Z

works nicely. strange concept but once you get it it’s not a problem anymore.

@stickhit I was just comparing apples with oranges basically, digital one trick ponies with a certain appeal to them, and state of the art analogs with tons features. Wouldn’t even call a very primitive shift register osc weak, tho. All a matter of taste.

pselodux · 2015-03-24T22:47:34.000Z

Cmon guys let’s not bring the weakness discussion here too, argh!

""Stickhit"":

A quick example to hear how hold values slightly affect the sound (as opposed to just holding the note length).

Clear a track, load the SID engine, set the wave to mix and all other parameters to off/zero. Set the amp ATK and REL to zero. Set the hold to 6 and the decay to 24.

Tap a pad to hear the sound which should have a buzz to it. Now if you set the hold back to zero you should find that you can’t achieve that exact buzz no matter where you set the decay.

Oh, that’s interesting, I’ll have to give it a try!

Stickhit · 2015-03-24T23:10:55.000Z

[font=Calibri","sans-serif]Currently trying to replicate a standard ADSR by using an LFO to control the volume level. I can’t get the sustain to work right, there is always a jump in volume going from decay to sustain. Anyone had any success with this technique?

s_p_a_c_e_tent · 2015-03-25T03:10:05.000Z

""Stickhit"":

Currently trying to replicate a standard ADSR by using an LFO to control the volume level. I can’t get the sustain to work right, there is always a jump in volume going from decay to sustain. Anyone had any success with this technique?

Try use a ONE shot trig for the LFO, and turn the VOL parameter down low.You probably want to have the hold or dec params to max also.

Stickhit · 2015-03-25T11:04:40.000Z

Thanks for the reply. I have been using a one shot LFO and all variations of HOLD/DEC/REL but I either end up with no sustain or a sustain that jumps in volume.

I have thought of using 2 LFOs (one for A/D and the second for S/R) but the only way I can see to delay the second LFO is to trig it, which would only allow a minimum delay time of a 32nd. The second LFO would need to kick in faster than that .
[font=Calibri","sans-serif]Not to worry, not a show stopper.

bob1 · 2015-03-25T11:55:58.000Z

Found the ADR env solution completely sufficient

pselodux · 2015-03-25T12:50:01.000Z

[quote=“” Stickhit""]

Thanks for the reply. I have been using a one shot LFO and all variations of HOLD/DEC/REL but I either end up with no sustain or a sustain that jumps in volume.

I have thought of using 2 LFOs (one for A/D and the second for S/R) but the only way I can see to delay the second LFO is to trig it, which would only allow a minimum delay time of a 32nd. The second LFO would need to kick in faster than that .
Not to worry, not a show stopper.
[/quote]

What do you mean by “the sustain jumps in volume”?

Stickhit · 2015-03-25T17:48:25.000Z

[quote=““pselodux””]

Stickhit:

Thanks for the reply. I have been using a one shot LFO and all variations of HOLD/DEC/REL but I either end up with no sustain or a sustain that jumps in volume.

I have thought of using 2 LFOs (one for A/D and the second for S/R) but the only way I can see to delay the second LFO is to trig it, which would only allow a minimum delay time of a 32nd. The second LFO would need to kick in faster than that .
Not to worry, not a show stopper.

What do you mean by “the sustain jumps in volume”?[/quote]
The sustain level is higher then the volume at the end of the decay so the envelope sounds like it has a double attack (which could be useful just not what I was looking for).

pselodux · 2015-03-25T22:25:40.000Z

Oh right, gotcha. I’m not at home at the moment but what if you use the HALF mode instead of ONE? Which waveforms have you tried using for the LFO?

insidestraight · 2015-03-25T23:28:19.000Z

I only use the hold parameter to beef up punchy bass sounds, seems to to do something I can’t achieve with the ADSR envelopes.

Stickhit · 2015-03-26T16:53:29.000Z

""pselodux"":

Oh right, gotcha. I’m not at home at the moment but what if you use the HALF mode instead of ONE? Which waveforms have you tried using for the LFO?

[font=Calibri","sans-serif]I use the RMP wave. If you look at the wave shape it is like an attack and decay. One shot is what I use as it gives one cycle of the wave. Half shot gives one half cycle so would only give the attack part of the wave.

Stickhit · 2015-03-26T16:55:26.000Z

""insidestraight"":

I only use the hold parameter to beef up punchy bass sounds, seems to to do something I can’t achieve with the ADSR envelopes.

[font=Calibri","sans-serif]The hold parameter basically holds the volume of the sound at its maximum level for the length of time which you have it set (I think the maximum time is just over 2 seconds). Whereas the decay parameter immediately begins to reduce the level of the sound at a rate determined by its setting.

pselodux · 2015-03-26T20:24:02.000Z

""Stickhit"":

I use the RMP wave. If you look at the wave shape it is like an attack and decay. One shot is what I use as it gives one cycle of the wave. Half shot gives one half cycle so would only give the attack part of the wave.

The full RMP wave goes straight to zero after the ‘attack’. I’m not sure what kind of sound you’re going for but it’s not much of a decay! Anyway, that’s beside the point. Have you tried other LFO waveforms, like TRI in half mode (which looks like equal attack and decay)?

What are your other settings? I would assume having the half TRI wave on the LFO would allow a crude attack/decay if your attack and hold in the amplitude page were set to zero, and decay set to maximum. I really need to start reading this thread while I’m actually in front of my monomachine haha.

Stickhit · 2015-03-26T22:20:21.000Z

The manual recommends the RMP or EXP waves, which makes most sense to me. Anyway I have finally sussed it, I just needed to crank the LFO mult up to 64x.

I can recommend trying this as the different envelopes make a noticeable difference to the sound (you can achieve that piano plink sound) and there is also a noticeable difference between using the RMP or EXP waves.

The following settings work well

Amplification page

ATK- 0, HOLD-127, DEC-64, REL-53 (or to taste)

DIST- -11, VOL- 70

LFO page

PAGE-AMP, DEST-VOL, TRIG-ONE, WAVE- EXP or RMP (EXP is sharper sounding)

MULT-64X, SPD-80, INTL-0, DPTH-127 (or to taste)

pselodux · 2015-03-26T22:31:27.000Z

Interesting! I don’t usually use AMP envelopes beyond just release times, but I’ll check it out. Could be good for when something needs a bit more punch!

s_p_a_c_e_tent · 2015-03-26T23:01:18.000Z

""Stickhit"":

The manual recommends the RMP or EXP waves, which makes most sense to me. Anyway I have finally sussed it, I just needed to crank the LFO mult up to 64x.

I can recommend trying this as the different envelopes make a noticeable difference to the sound (you can achieve that piano plink sound) and there is also a noticeable difference between using the RMP or EXP waves.

The following settings work well

Amplification page

ATK- 0, HOLD-127, DEC-64, REL-53 (or to taste)

DIST- -11, VOL- 70

LFO page

PAGE-AMP, DEST-VOL, TRIG-ONE, WAVE- EXP or RMP (EXP is sharper sounding)

MULT-64X, SPD-80, INTL-0, DPTH-127 (or to taste)

When using that patch you can change the SPD parameter to fine tune the length of the envelope. Use with the ARP for interesting effects.

rikrak · 2015-03-27T16:16:41.000Z

Just to chime in, the HOLD parameter sets how long the envelope will stay sustained, as long as the Trig / MIDI Note is held down.

It is relative to the BPM, with a HOLD of 127 being 1 bar (16 steps) long. In other words, 1 step on the sequencer is a HOLD of 8, 4 steps are 32, etc.

If a Note Off is received, OR if the HOLD time has elapsed, the envelope goes into the Decay phase.

Stickhit · 2015-03-27T17:30:23.000Z

Wow, good shout about HOLD being related to BPM. No mention of that in the manual and I had not noticed it.

When the HOLD time elapses the envelope does go into the Decay phase but when a Note Off is received it goes into the Release phase (and it won’t go into the Release phase without a Note off).