It’s about how tight and controlled the bass frequencies are sounding.
Also check Hedd https://www.hedd.audio/
I see, that does add some complication. They do tilt upward, but I’m not sure if they would tilt enough.
It’s good to think into the future too though. The better the speakers are, the longer you’ll be able to use them without thinking about your next upgrade.
Also consider when you might think about a desk upgrade. Is it worth dealing with until then? Is your room big enough to have speaker floor stands behind the desk?
Yeah, you’ve got it as far as those stated specs are concerned really - it’s hard to be sure but based on them I don’t think there’d be a huge difference bass-wise.
To be honest though, smaller desktops are always going to be a compromise in that sense. Despite the 8030Cs being very impressive in the bass for a 5" speaker, after a bit more time spent with them today I ended up ordering a sub. If you really want to know what’s happening down there and not have the lowest notes dipping out of range I’m not sure there’s a way around it really. Even the massive price and size jump to the 8040s only gains you like 6hz in the low end.
If you can’t treat your room well, get something that’s very clear in the mids and use headphones to check the low lows (or in a car, etc). I have an old pair of Adam A7s from before the company was sold. I think I’ve had them for a solid decade. For elevation and isolation from my desk I use….hockey pucks.
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Too much to unpack here but lets see.
Rokits 5 G3’s were ok but the BM5 MKIII not.
So many monitors mentioned that absolutely sound very different from each other.
No room treatment what so ever.
Clearly all this makes no sense at all. You’re overthinking things way too much without understanding the basics first. My advise to you would be to get those Rokits again on the market dirty cheap and use the rest on gear that make sense right now. Getting anything else and you’ll be wasting your money imo.
The BM5 mkIII’s were great but they weren’t ideal for my setup (hiss, size, bass) which I discovered only after trying them out. Apart from that there was nothing wrong with them as far as I could discern. I am sure they would be perfect in a larger, treated studio. In my case, because I had the opportunity to swap them out hassle-free for something else, why settle?
I agree. I am an overthinker in general, but part of the reason for the overthinking and the forum post is that I enjoy short intense bursts of diving head-first into certain subjects that interest me. I learned some things about monitors and acoustics along the way and thanks to your guys’ comments and suggestions here.
Could that time be spent in a more productive and creative way? Most definitely. But the way I see it – my setup is very minimal (Live with some Xfer and u-he plugins, A4 MKI, a Tele, HX Stomp, HD 660 S, and that’s it!) and I intend to keep it that way for many years to come, so where I thought I shouldn’t cut any corners is in monitoring. After eight years of on-and-off tinkering with music production and nothing to show for it, I am now ready to focus and nurture better habits and “take this hobby seriously”. So I don’t mind investing in good monitoring.
My goal was to choose monitors that would allow me to work at very low volumes (which hiss renders annoying) to minimize the negative effects of the room. I will treat the room little by little, to the extent possible. I did some walking around my room with music playing on the BM5 mkIII’s and found a few spots where the bass would lose a lot of power. It was quite eye-opening to actually hear how drastic the effect of a room can be. I also A/Bd a track with and without an EQ cut at 50 Hz and found that while the cut takes away much of the nice rumble, without good bass traps I would be shooting myself in the foot with all that low end energy. So I am also learning some of the basics along the way.
@Airyck, @Mumdad, @reflectual, you guys build a great case for Genelec and I went into the store to exchange the BM5 mkIII’s for a pair of 8030C’s. But…
They didn’t have the Genelecs in stock. But what they did have is a 16% discount on Neumann KH 120 A’s… which made the Neumanns on par with the Genelecs and just a bit more expensive than the A7X’s price wise. Do you see where this is going? 
What won me over in the end:
- Neumann brand reputation and the overall online sentiment about the quality of the KH 120 A’s.
- The hiss on the KH 120 A’s is reportedly a bit lower than on the 8030C’s and much lower than on the BM5 mkIII’s.
- Minimum listening distance as short as 75 cm.
- Sturdy aluminum casing just like the 8030C. German-built.
- Compact footprint.
- Should be enough bass for me.
- Looks great.
- 2-year warranty.
- Easily sits atop IsoAcoustic stands (while the Genelecs would require other solutions to get them to ear-height).
- I appreciate that Neumann publishes detailed specs of their products, provides a detailed manual outlining how to best set up the monitors, and offers other learning materials like technical glossaries on their site. It shows their customer-centric approach. (Genelec are also strong in this department, while Dynaudio leaves a lot to be desired.)
- As old as the A7X’s but comparable in price with the discount.
- Front-ported.
- Plenty of controls on back panel for adapting the monitors to the room.
All in all I am very happy with my decision. I think the KH 120 A’s will serve me well for many many years. They should arrive sometime this coming week.
I want to express my thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. It turned out more substantial than I expected! I surely rambled on too much in my posts but, hopefully, this thread will be useful to others trying to make a decision about monitors. Cheers, best of luck, and see you around!
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Great to hear you’re happy with what you’ve got - never heard Neumanns myself but from everything I’ve read I doubt you’ll be disappointed
Interesting thread, since moving to a new listening position I’ve become a bit annoyed with amp hiss from my A7x, they are both acting the same and hiss when nothing except power is connected. I think next time I’ll go with passive monitors and external amp
I use the a3x and the sub7, but I can’t wait to upgrade to the new Adams!! I’m not looking forward to trying to sell mine though and shipping them gives me chills… new stuff is great but I hate trying to get rid of the the old stuff…
KH120s are a great choice! One of the best out there, enjoy!
Dieter says delete.
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I read about Focal QC/CS, and don’t doubt the poster, but I’ve had a set of Alpha 80’s that have been going strong for over a decade (a friend has been borrowing them for a couple years in his home studio). A few years back I thought I had a dead tweeter and in my panic wrote them immediately. They were very fast and responsive. I had a new tweeter shipped from France (I’m in TN/US) in just a couple days…only to discover a wire had simply come loose and the tweeter was fine
Been running ShapeTwins for 2-3 years have been very pleased with them and have mixed quite a few records for a diverse group of artists, as well as my own projects. Not lobbying for them, because you listed some other very nice speakers as well. I’m generally a big fan of Dynaudio, can’t stand the Yamahas, like the Genelecs, but don’t enjoy mixing on em. Neumann’s are terrific, but I preferred the ShapeTwins. I demo’d both in different rooms though, so…
Love listening to the smaller Adam’s, but never mixed on em. I used to have a commercial studio where we had a pair of Adam S3A’s which were glorious to listen to music on, but tricky to mix on. The mids just weren’t translating. These days, I have a home studio setup for mixing/overdubs with ok/minimal sound treatment. The Focals translate nicely. I’d never advocate against acoustic treatment (duh), but there’s a lot to be said for simply learning the space you’re in. We spent thousands on sound treatment in our commercial studio, but I spent maybe $500 in my home studio and just learned my room, cross check with good headphones, etc
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I love my A5X.
Thanks for coming to my anecdotal hot take.
Just wanted to give my two cents! I have a new pair of Adam A7V (the new A-Series model) and I am super super impressed by them. I can’t find any reviews online yet so I thought I’d share here. For context, I make music with a lot of high-frequency content and sharp transients (think: Lorenzo Senni) and I couldn’t be happier about the sonic qualities of the A7V. Although I never owned a pair of A7Xs personally, I have worked on them in the past in friends’ studios and they have made a number of really important changes with the new model I think.
The new waveguide on the tweeter does wonders for horizontal dispersion and sound staging. I initially found them a little bright, but since burning them in, I now understand ribbon-type tweeters. They are SUPER detailed but not necessarily in a harsh way. The new woofer design seems to have controlled a lot of those rumbly / muddy low mids that I used to hear a lot on the A7Xs. Perhaps most importantly (I haven’t seen anyone talk about this yet) the new A7V has in-built DSP which can get it much flatter than the more-hyped sound of the A7Xs without adding latency. The ‘Pure’ voicing sounds A LOT better than the UNR voicing which is meant to emulate the A7Xs.
The Sonarworks integration software hasn’t released yet but I’m sure when that arrives the monitors will take another step up in terms of quality. I honestly think at this price point, it really is the best pair of monitors for all the features you’re getting. Maybe a digital input is the only thing that’s obviously missing since the monitor has DSP. Anything that costs similar would most certainly have a smaller woofer (like the 8030C or KH120).
The newly announced KH150s with DSP may give these a run for their money though, we’ll have to see.
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My A7V’s came this week and they’re exceeding my expectations–Adam knocked it out of the park. I would have been happy with the A7X’s but every issue has been corrected beautifully with the A7V’s. The edginess in the upper mids of the A7X is gone, but all the detail remains. Straight out of the box these sound remarkably balanced and smooth, and the bass is cleaner and tighter. After I burn them in for a bit, I’ll have a go with building an EQ profile using the six band parametric EQ software. Not sure I’ll need to go do a Sonarworks profile, but we’ll see. Can’t imagine anyone using the UNR voicing–yikes! Glad I waited for the A7V release. I’ve been hearing some amazing monitors with DSP and the technology can add a lot in terms of tuning.
@frenchaudio2 Enjoy your KH-120 A’s! Haven’t had a chance to audition them, but have only heard positive things about them. Please post your impressions, too.
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I wanted to say get the KH120s but now i see you already chose them!
Had also some kind of Hiss with one of my B5mkIIIs approx. 3 month after I bought them in August 2020. Sure I was a bit pissed about the noise only 3 month after buying the monitors. I sent them in for repair, both monitors, just because I hoped, the Service-Center would match them after repairing the issue.
Because of Covid and lockdowns, it took quite a while to get them back. But the Dynaudio-Service here in Germany did an excellent job on both monitors, they changed the Amp-Modules on both monitors. I got them back like new and perfectly matched, even the auto-standby sets in at the same time.
What I really like about the Dynaudios is that you can listen to them in different loudness-levels, it doesn’t matter if you listen loud or quiet on them the sound stays the same and there is basically no fatigue while listening to them over long periods of time. Just the transients could be a bit snappier on the monitors, but overall I’m super happy with the Dynaudo BM5mkIIIs.
I am also looking at new monitors, so I went and listened to some today, to confirm if I’d be happy with a pair of A7X (that I’d always intended to upgrade to). Checked out a load of others. Frustrating dealing with a less than ideal room and placement — I’ll probably have to get two pairs in my own studio to really see which is best.
Whittled my options down:
Adam A7X plus Sub7
Focal Shape Twins
From the less than ideal room today:
- the Adam A7x were impressive in the high end, less bassy than expected without the sub (the t7v, my current monitors, sounded much fuller with rear ports in that room), width was generally great, punchy fast sound, more analytical
- the Focals bloomed / rang a bit too much in bass, seemed a little less clear generally, but they sounded more cohesive and glued, smoother, better depth with reverbs, less forward high mids
Another variable, is I’ve got Sonarworks on the way to help even things out. So I’m not sure if the Focals would be better for their front to back depth, with sonarworks helping bring out more high mids / top whilst keeping low end tidy, or if the Adams plus sub with levelling from sonarworks would feel a bit more 3d in my better setup space. Hence I might have to try both in my studio. I’m also interested to see what sonarworks says my room resonances are… I think I know it well enough to guess pretty accurately!
Anyone have experience with sonarworks and the A7x or Shape Twins? I feel like they’ll take the EQing quite differently…
I demo’d sonarworks through my Shape Twins, I was definitely happy with the sound post-correction.
In my room, the Shape Twins showed a lot more presence in the low-mid range with the bass and highs dropping down noticeably. Sonarworks made a significant difference to the top end.
I recently added a Sub10 which has filled in the low end significantly! I don’t own sonarworks license though so I haven’t measured the room again yet. I’ll probably pick it up soon
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