Help Me Put Octatrack Doubts To Rest

Elektron Gear Octatrack
1

Hello all

I picked up an Octatrack about a month ago for a bit of a bargain price and chucked myself into learning it. As it stands, I am reasonably comfortable with the various functions, I get there in the end, but as for being creative with it and churning out anything of interest well, that’s an altogether different matter! I can accept that a month isn’t really long enough but with limited spare time I’m starting to wonder whether it is right for me or if I should focus on what I know and am much more adept at (ITB rather than OTB).

At the moment I typically have the Octatrack sequencing my other hardware (x-station, Mopho, Miniak, iPad & Yamaha A4000) and I have some fun using it this way. I am finally using my hardware for a start which had all sat in the corner gathering dust other than the x-station which is my master/audio interface. But, and it’s a big but, I can do all of this sequencing via my laptop & Ableton if I wanted to or, if I had to have a step sequencer, then even just my iPad.

It’s when it comes to the sampling side of things, an area I know the Octatrack shines in, that it falls to pieces for me to be honest! I think Ableton has actually spoiled me with its ease of use. Does anyone have any tips or resources to read through for the sampling side of things in the hope I hit a “eureeka!” moment? Say, ignore the laptop, pick one piece of gear to sequence then try x, y & z to sample it and be creative.

Ultimately, the Octatrack might just not be my thing but being the most expensive bit of hardware I have ever owned I kind of don’t want to give up on it! I want to keep working at it! I can see the potential. Maybe I have been guilty of trying to do it all at once and should break it down to begin with - focus on sequencing midi gear and learn to sample/resample this on the fly.

Would appreciate any sort of pointers. I have gone through the Elektron tutorials but always good to get some advice from users. I know Im not the only one to find it tough going in the early days of Octatrack ownership! Stop me feeling like I will end up selling my hardware!!!

Cheers

2

My advice would be to focus on it intently for a few days, or even weeks, it is very much an instrument that needs to be mastered rather like breaking a horse or learning the violin, tackle each aspect in small pieces and before you know it everything should fall into place.

I’d suggest loading in 8 short samples from your collection, and focus on just playing around to see how far you can go with them, don’t be too precious about what comes out just push as far as you can using techniques such as resampling, looping, and forcing yourself to do as many patterns/songs/projects as possible with this limited sample set.

Another idea is to grab one or two of the sample packs from Elektron webshop and investigate and deconstruct them. Forget about your other gear whilst going through this exploratory phase and just see what comes out, you could look at the science labs on the old EU forum to get some ideas.

If after doing all this you find that you are not feeling different then sell it.

It is a great machine, but definitely not suited to everyone, you kind of have to surrender to it first, then make it your bitch :slight_smile:

Good luck!

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Haha I liked “you kind of have to surrender to it first, then make it your bitch :)”. It certainly seems that way!!!

Some great advice though. I’ve never really done sampling before, it was something I wanted to get into more as I’ve traditionally just stuck with midi and building songs in a DAW so I guess coming to a machine that has so many options and potential has kind of overwhelmed a bit. There are so many videos on Youtube and folk on forums that use the Octatrack in very different ways that it feels really difficult to decide what would be my best flow with it.

Saying that though, your tip on using a very limited sample collection I think is a very good one. When working through Elektron’s videos that is kind of what I was sticking to in the first couple of weeks then I went for sequencing and then I tried to use it with the guys I write tunes with (usually in Ableton) ditiching the laptop for an evening and I just wasn’t “there” yet to make the evening smooth and fully enjoyable. We were tired and grumpy anyway so the evening was doomed from the start!

It’s pay day tomorrow so I think I might pick up a sample pack, back up and clear the CF card, get out of my studio and sit down in the kitchen/living room with headphones and see what I can do. I think I have been guilty of letting the Octatrack seriously overwhelm me with its options so time to strip it all back, get rid of distractions and try it that way. Maybe keep the iPad close for video tutorials or forum searching (both of which a godsend in the early days!!!).

Thanks though for the encouragement and advice! Much appreciated!

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Here’s some sampling vids that might help:

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Hi !

There are many advantages to using the OT instead of Ableton or an Ipad.

First, it gives you the opportunity to get away from the computer for a bit. Instead of relying on your eyes, you have to rely on your ears. It can be a godsend, increasing productivity and giving you a better workflow.

Sometimes, limitations are good, and the OT has plenty of limitations, which will force you to push your creativity to the limit. And in the process, you will end up with sounds that you could never come up with in Ableton.

Also, the OT’s sequencer is just tight. Virtually no jitter, even over extended periods of time. It does not skip beats. The same cannot be said for Ableton, and even less for the Ipad. Ableton, to me, and most of my friends, lacks the tightness that makes a groove solid and trustworthy. I have tried many Ipad sequencers, and always turn them off when I hear that they cannot even do straight 16th for a while without feeling all “whack”.

As others have recommended, I would sit with just the OT, nothing else. It is a very overwhelming machine, and when you just start exploring it, it will melt your brain repeatedly, which may leave you a bit confused about how to best use it. Do not feel bad if you’re using just one function on it for a bit, you cannot use everything at once. Spend some time with a limited pool of samples, and explore the resampling possibilities.

I have done some tutorials on the OT, you can find the link to that playlist below :slight_smile:
Enjoy !

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+1 to Secretmusic’s videos. Tips ahoy!

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My experience with the OT has been the same of Jon…
Interesting machine but after months I don’t come up with a song … just a couple of patterns that are so so…
For me the os is really bad engineered, it takes a lot of push combinations of buttons to do somenthing really simple , and the sample management is quite illogic.
I’m not new to hardware samplers , and not new to limitations, but limitations are ok if you couldn’t do something better, this case it’s different for me.
I really miss the "kit "/“programs” type of workflow , and it’s quite absurd you have only 2 octave of pitch.
I mean , I know this machine has loop mangling as main target , but 8 note polyphony… we live in 2013… this is a not a budget sampler for djing live…
maybe I don’t catch the elektron philosophy but it seems like to go to a motorbike race with a bike… a beatiful bike , but always a bike…
Think elektron should upgrade the ot with a new os with all the missing features that you can find in every , nowdays, cheap 90’s sampler…

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Thanks Allerian, and right back at you :slight_smile:

Cheers !

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I just wrote a huge reply but it totally got screwed up and didnt work… :-1:

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My post totally got cut when I hit reply I hope it works second time around…

I recently had a similar discussion about this over at gearslutz in the ITB vs OTB thread. I am in the same boat. I’m two months in with mine (but i was out of the country for a month).

I originally bought it because I wanted to start performing live, and if my bedroom counts as a venue I certainly have.

However, I think my output is noticeably different. Not just in the number of songs I produce (I used to make a full four minute track in just a few hours on ableton - excluding mastering etc).

For me, the tracks I made in ableton are more detailed and have a greater variation than those I make on the fly on the OT.

Not to spam (Honestly) , but just as I did on the GS board I’ll link you to one track I made in ableton and one on the OT. Also bare in mind that I have been using ableton for effing years, and when I first started using it after coming from Fruity Loops, it destroyed me and I couldn’t make anything.

Anyway this

Was all ableton. I think it sounds far more detailed has a lot more going and the structure is a bit more complex.

and this
https://soundcloud.com/nedavine/nedavine-live-octatrack-live
was all OT + mopho and shruthi (half on the fly). To me it sounds much more linear and more simplistic. Not as well mixed and even the style sounds different.

But here is the thing. That ableton track? There is not a chance in hell I could reproduce that live, save for queuing up the track and finger stabbing the air like a don.

The OT one will probably be a bit different with each performance (which is what live music is all about).

The advice about using only samples is also great advice for getting used to using the OT. I did the same thing yesterday and ended up making some deranged stuff. But don’t write off the sequencer. It can do stuff better than ableton too.

Yesterday I had 4 midi channels all going to my new tetra, each one was playing an arp and each arp was P locked at different speeds transpositions. I did it on the fly. And now that I have discovered you can input the note value with the keyboard its fast as hell to get that sort of thing done. And its way faster than ableton. Trying to get that kind of automation in ableton is definitely possible but it would take ages. Fiddling around in the automation lanes. It took minutes in the OT.

I was never into sequencing much, I always liked live playing (i still do that in the OT) but last night was so much fun. add that with flipping around some drum beats using sliced kits and the way over used beat repeat. GREAT FUN!!!

Watch Secretmusic’s youtube tutorial on midi. Pure inspiration.

I need to use scenes more though and more creatively. I totally under use them.

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My post totally got cut when I hit reply I hope it works second time around…

I recently had a similar discussion about this over at gearslutz in the ITB vs OTB thread. I am in the same boat. I’m two months in with mine (but i was out of the country for a month).

I originally bought it because I wanted to start performing live, and if my bedroom counts as a venue I certainly have.

However, I think my output is noticeably different. Not just in the number of songs I produce (I used to make a full four minute track in just a few hours on ableton - excluding mastering etc).

For me, the tracks I made in ableton are more detailed and have a greater variation than those I make on the fly on the OT.

Not to spam (Honestly) , but just as I did on the GS board I’ll link you to one track I made in ableton and one on the OT. Also bare in mind that I have been using ableton for effing years, and when I first started using it after coming from Fruity Loops, it destroyed me and I couldn’t make anything.

Anyway this

Was all ableton. I think it sounds far more detailed has a lot more going and the structure is a bit more complex.

and this
https://soundcloud.com/nedavine/nedavine-live-octatrack-live
was all OT + mopho and shruthi (half on the fly). To me it sounds much more linear and more simplistic. Not as well mixed and even the style sounds different.

But here is the thing. That ableton track? There is not a chance in hell I could reproduce that live, save for queuing up the track and finger stabbing the air like a don.

The OT one will probably be a bit different with each performance (which is what live music is all about).

The advice about using only samples is also great advice for getting used to using the OT. I did the same thing yesterday and ended up making some deranged stuff. But don’t write off the sequencer. It can do stuff better than ableton too.

Yesterday I had 4 midi channels all going to my new tetra, each one was playing an arp and each arp was P locked at different speeds transpositions. I did it on the fly. And now that I have discovered you can input the note value with the keyboard its fast as hell to get that sort of thing done. And its way faster than ableton. Trying to get that kind of automation in ableton is definitely possible but it would take ages. Fiddling around in the automation lanes. It took minutes in the OT.

I was never into sequencing much, I always liked live playing (i still do that in the OT) but last night was so much fun. add that with flipping around some drum beats using sliced kits and the way over used beat repeat. GREAT FUN!!!

Watch Secretmusic’s youtube tutorial on midi. Pure inspiration.

I need to use scenes more though and more creatively. I totally under use them.
[/quote]
I literally have the exact opposite experience. Tracks I make in ableton are way more boring than the tracks I’ve produced on the OT.
I can tell you that you HAVE to use scenes to get to the level that you want. In Ableton you can do a thousand automations at once and that gets your song moving. On the OT the cross fader is that and more.

I don’t know what you listen to, but lately I’ve been into drone techno type stuff and I’ve made some extremely complex shit on the OT in a way that felt like the OT had a mind of it’s own! Scenes!

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Making music with the OT is more fun and if I ever reach the same level of understanding as I have with ableton it will be unbeatable. I didn’t mean to sound to negative against the OT. I love mine and havent turned ableton on all month except to export kits for slicing.

I think the OP is noticing his output decreasing, but I thin thats natural at first. Just like my old fruity to live shift.

Would love to hear you stuff if you have links.

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Wow! I honestly didn’t think this would spark off so much interest. Cheers guys.

It seems that Im definitely not alone in how I feel early on with the Octatrack. Nedavine - it was actually your ITB vs OTB thread on Gearslutz that really got my doubts going haha! And yes, you nailed it in that my output, while never prolific or even that good (!), has certainly decreased. Being a family man I dont have much spare time with two young kids and the Octatrack being the beast that it is has certainly sapped all available spare time for a little over a month now.

Cheers everyone for the video links, will be checking them out asap as well as getting my hands on a fresh sample pack. Going to start my CF card fresh this weekend and see how I get on. Last night I was mucking about with the pickup machine and my miniak and had a blast - brought the smile back again anyway. It was actually a Volca Keys + Vox Delaylab youtube clip that inspired it.

Nedavine - really enjoyed both of those tracks. I know what you mean in terms of “detail” but both work very well (really good stuff by the way). The mix and vibes is different but not in a bad way. Some really dig a dirtier track, others prefer clarity I guess. Using Ableton & Octatrack you seem to be managing both! I really enjoyed your “Slow Jam” too! It’s funny that you mention the Tetra as I had my eye on one too - particularly using it the way you have mentioned but I was wary of spending more £’s when Im undecided about ITB/OTB.

Im not in need of the cash so will not be making any rash decisions and selling stuff off. At the end of the day, I wouldnt pick up a guitar and expect to be making stuff up on the fly inside a month so time to get the head down and learn, practice and just try stuff out. Going to keep to a limited number of samples and will be checking out all these videos. I think I will set up a project for each of things I enjoy and want to learn - looping, sequencing, sampling - and will tackle them both in turn before mixing in elements of each into another project.

Feeling much better about things though, cheers guys!

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J0n35y. Seems we are in very similar boats. I too have a little one (10 months) so between work and the baby I only have a little time left for the OT.

Cheers for the kind words about the music. The slow jam was just juno and the OT, i think that was like my first week with the OT and I posted to the vid on youtube.

I actually traded my machinedrum for the tetra on here. It is amazing man. ITB vs OTB aside its useful with ableton too. It just sounds huge. If you have the money to spend I would recommend the hell out of it.

I too, recently wiped my card and started afresh. Felt nice to have a new start. I’ve recently taken to keeping a pen and paper to hand. A studio notebook so to speak to keep track of what file uses what. But you can store the program and bank in the midi settings so its only my effects pedals I have to take note of an BPM.

Keep it up mate. Share your progress too, I’d like to hear what you’re doing with it.

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was it this one?

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Sorry some bug keeps duplicating embeded data and deleting any text after them,

I was trying to say that I got the delay lab on monday and have just now found this video after you having mentioned it.

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I’m running the Octatrack and MD synced to Ableton using a Sync-Lock when I’m at home preparing live set parts.

On Ableton I can get stuck into multi channel sound design and bounce full stems of parts or sounds I wouldn’t be able to create live, then send these to the OT via USB and sequence them, then resample back to ableton etc etc etc. The synclock has definitely got rid of the problems I was having with Ableton’s dodgy midi sync, very useful bit of kit.

Quite a few bits of my current live set have been tweaked out of the OT and back into Ableton > back to the OT 2 or 3 times now :wink:

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It was this one actually, done by the same guy I think. I actually found it very inspiring due to its simplicity and it made the Volca Keys sound very epic and cinematic and another bit of kit to lust over!!! Hi new vid using just the Volca’s is great cheesy number!

So I watched that last night then went and plugged the Miniak in to the Octatrack and mucked about for an hour or so happy as larry. When I started using the Miniak’s vocoder and doing random vocal bits it sort of came together in one giant happy mess! Absolutely nothing usable but a lot of fun had with very little head scratching.

Some really good prices on the Delay Lab just now from Amazon of all places. I’m thinking of using my A4000 as an effects board routing the audio into the Octatracks Pickup to achieve similar results.

I’ve got two kids, 2 and 4 and Im sure you can imagine the headache of juggling that with work and music!!! I’ve been tempted to sell my Mopho for a Tetra for some time but with the doubts hanging over my head haven’t done so. I think I probably will get it eventually. Maybe around bonus time next March which by then, hopefully, I will be very comfortable with the Octatrack.

I had a day off work today and was in the house on my own. I bought a sample pack from Sample Magic, wiped the card and sat in the living room with a few rotten movies on in the background. Had a blast! For the first time I was getting my head around the LFO’s and using the fader in ways I hadn’t thought of before. Haven’t dared trying resampling yet, will stick with what Im comfortable with for now but it’s good to have fun with the Octatrack again.

I’ll def be posting updates on how I get on and hopefully in a few weeks I might actually have something work sharing!!!

19

Short on time today but I always suggest plugging a cheap radio into the OT and sampling that while you play a couple of musical loops underneath it. Not knowing what will come out of the radio puts your brain in a different frame of mind, and your brain’s optimization for speech sounds will make you more responsive to the nuances of what you are doing. You will learn faster as a result.

1 Like
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(resurrecting the the thread)

nedavine_
that ableton track junoh is GREAT. fantastic.

curious the direction your feelings have changed since last november.
how are you using ableton?
ot?

i’m coming from the place of being able to do whatever i want w/ ableton but not doing very much. in some sense how open it is makes it difficult, but in another the work i create is more _work and less _creative.

today, how do you see things?
how are you using the different tools?