I’ve been learning about music production for a long time, started out on Ableton and then fiddled with hardware machines for the last 10 years or so. I’ve learnt a lot and know my way around synths and FX. Despite this I’ve never really finished anything. Not much gets past the 1-8 bar loop phase and I’m not really sure why. I definitely lose interest after a while and decide it sounds too crappy to continue with the next time I turn my gear on. I also can’t mix for toffee. Another thing I’m definitely guilty of is comparing my music to that of my favourite artists and it never stands up.
I really want to make some tracks that I’d call finished. I’ve invested a lot of time in this and whilst it’s always fun, I really would like some sort of finished music.
Any advice and wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
This is probably gonna sound useless, but I’ll give it a shot just in case. One thing that helped me go forward was to see making music as a form of documentation. That was very logical to me because music making was partially a substitute to photography at the time.
So I saw that as putting down my thoughts/feelings/what have you into sound and listening back to it after a while I found out that some of these recordings where strongly connected to certain points in time or events.
To go from a few bars to something finished takes some more discipline I think, but that’s where you put the work, otherwise it’s just play—arguably equally or more important but if your goal is something else you focus on that.
Don’t be consumed by your own ideas, try to put some thought on how to develop them before you get bored. Also, if something was exciting to you at first, it’ll probably be to others before they listen to it 100 times.
Mixing doesn’t matter that much, you’ll either become better at it listening back to your recordings or have someone else help with that.
If you’re really having a block, pick one of the ideas you’re working on and see it through before working on anything else. Even if you’re thinking about this in terms of an exercise, see it through. Consider the structure and come up with a beginning, a middle part, and an ending. Done. It doesn’t have to be your magnum opus. If it’s not a very good track, move on and don’t bother getting bogged down with mixing. Also, comparison is the thief of joy. Good luck and share something when you’re ready.
I find deadlines help to make me finish things. Try not to be too precious and just see each tune as a stepping stone. Have fun with it and progress with each one.
There’s a few YouTube vids out there with tips on breaking out of an 8 bar loop, no shame in following their guidance while you find your own way.
Pinch things from your heroes but only compare your own stuff to the 1000,000s of shit stuff out there. Instant confidence boost!
Lately, I’ve found it helpful to just try to make short arrangements with whatever I’ve come up with in a project. Even if it’s only 8 bars, just do a loose arrangement and bounce it. Often, when listening back, ideas for next steps come naturally.
As stated above, don’t put too much pressure on it. Not every bounce needs to be a masterpiece.
On the other hand, sometimes it’s nice to have a little pressure. Push yourself to post something in the Our Sounds thread of this forum, or send it to a friend. I’ve found that when I am showing somebody my work, things that I should do, or shouldn’t have done, become glaringly obvious.
…an idea came to mind that it would be great to organize such a format of interaction between musicians, where some musicians can post demos(
and any requests), and others can respond to requests…
kind of freelance exchange for musicians/songwriters/djs to search for partners or place requests for remixes or offer remixes and any collaborations.
It is clear that this can be discussed on the forum, but I meant a service platform with automation, perhaps someone has implemented something similar somewhere…?
so that you can search/place/listen to dozens of demos/requests, quickly respond, have a payment/timing service for tasks, etc. to post your musical/song/lyrics ideas , find people for $ remixes/mixing/mastering, find authors of lyrics, etc.
global production hub for interaction of all specialists related to audio/video creativity))))
Sounds like you’ve got loads of 1-8 bar tracks that you haven’t released for some reason.
Some of my favourite tracks aren’t much more than a 4 bar loop.
Here’s a banger that is basically a 1 bar loop with just a kick, clap and synth…
And nobody out there seems to be telling Russell he can’t do whatever he likes.
Some people have a real skill for composition and arrangement. Some of us just make killer loops and jam them into something resembling a track. All approaches are valid, there are no rules. If you want to fart into a microphone and release it you can and no fucker can stop you or tell you it’s not just as valid as every other shitnugget on Bandcamp.
Whatever standard you’ve decided must be met for something to be a track is unnecessary. Get off the DAW, start recording some shit live into a stereo bus and leave it at that.
Build up your 8-bar loop to like its most maximum state. Like whatever you envision the track to be at its fullest and most earnest and most complete. Maxi-loop is what I personally call it.
If your track is going to have a verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus/verse/chorus structure, then you may need a few of these maxi-loops. For techno and other weird music, maybe not….
After you’ve done that, find a reference track with a similar vibe. Listen to it very closely and use a paper and pencil to closely document the arrangement.
For example:
First section (8 bars): kick drums only
Second section: kick combined with clap
Third section: kick drops out, clap only and synth pad comes in
4th section: kick comes back with clap and synth and now a high hat appears and then there are some snare rolls
5th section: everything drops except for the synth and random dude starts talking
Etc etc etc
Do this for the whole track. Then go back and break down your 8-bar maxi-loop and arrangement in the very same way. Fill in gaps in the arrangement that sound too thin, or remove stuff that sounds too extra. Tweak until the outcome sounds good to you.
Boom. Finished track.
Lots of pros use reference tracks for mixing. I don’t think there is anything wrong with using a reference track for arrangement while you’re still getting your legs under you. It’s like training wheels. Once you do it enough times, you’ll start to instinctively know how to build things up and break them down again.
counterpoint: i don’t want to make songs and i enjoy just making loops. sometimes i’ll turn on my synths to make something and end up just listening to old patterns for a while, maybe making minor mixing adjustments.
ultimately i enjoy the original idea the most, and most times it feels like if i were to create a B section or variation to add song structure it somehow cheapens the original loop. perhaps this could be attributed to poor musicianship, but i’ve found that accepting that i don’t want to make traditional songs has been liberating and allowed me to allow myself to experiment in different ways.
also i love recording things from my phone and not having access to the highest possible recording. for example here’s one of my favorite recordings from the past year-- it has this nasty quality about it that is so charming, and you can hear someone clattering plates at the end which adds a lot to me:
for finished work, what i’ve been enjoying is sequencing these loops or demos into a larger piece with static transitions. the larger artistic statement is then in the pacing of these loops and the sequencing of them together:
be quick in decisions…and move right on to next element…if u find urself scrolling through endless preset lists, u’ve alread lost the game…ur game…never leave a session without a quick first arrangement layout…average track out there is under 3 minutes…no excuses…even if u just copy and paste that one damn’ same single 8bar loop until ur actual bpm count reaches out to an overall length of 2 and a half minutes…fine…next time u open that project, be assured, u’ll find urself muting / erasing something here and there just by realtime instinct, while it’s running, wipe out single notes, double something up, just on the fly…many tracks out there, that just flow along and stay intresting by nothing but various different muting states of the same elements…keep in mind, whatever element ur frickling on, u could frickle forever just to get lost in it, if u don’t move on to the next element soon enough…if ur actual sketch has potential u will realise soon enough and only THEN it’s worth spending more time to further details… every 20 minutes ur ears adept to actual sonic status quo…work with that!..pause in silence every 30 minutes for a quick 5 minute coffe or whatever break…take a step back…and then hit play with refreshed ears…
in essence…if u don’t wanna stuck on one same loop…copy that thing and give urself room to let various shit just happen on top of it…do now, think later…
if ur working on a daw that offers that sexy hexy sonic exel sheet of a clip view, only use it for first sketching and sorting first ideas…the moment u got ur first little loop designed and running, copy it straight into the arranger view and it’s actual timeline, since ONLY there is the place where u really make IT happen and wanna do whatever u wanna do for real…
Try to start small. First, try to build a second verse with the same sounds. Add bridge and fade those parts in and out. That’s a song.
Next time, go for a chorus. Rinse and repeat.
Sometimes you might not manage to do any b section at all and even that is fine. Just fade it in and break it up then bring it back in. That’s a song. Tweak parameters, mute/unmute, use long modulations and most people can’t even tell it’s a short loop structurally.
I personally believe it’s beneficial to develop even those loops you’re happy with to songs. It will help with future compositions as you have to think about the form. At least I think it’s helped me. Also paying some attention to it while listening to music generally helps.
If you don’t like the idea of this kind of loop based music, try using DAW to arrange. Im not saying it’s not possible to arrange like that with hardware, but it gets more tedious than with a DAW.
Every track on my last 2 albums are nothing more than 8 bar loops.
Have you tried starting your loop from nothing, and gradually bringing things in, one at a time, take them out, back in again etc until youve had enough? If you recorded all that, guess what? Thats a track.
Mixing is actually easy, everyone makes it so hard for no reason. Pick a thing (say the drums) set that to a nice level, now bring each other element in so you can hear it nicely balanced against the drums. Do that and you’ll hear everything clearly.
As already mentioned, fuck the DAW off, just jam out, record a stereo mix and its done. That’s how loads of people do it. Loads.
Theres no rule that says you have to all this fiddly bollocks in a DAW.
