Have you had an epiphany on the A4? Or went from disliketo love?

AdmiralBumbleBee · 2013-10-20T15:53:26.000Z

""Barfunkel"":

The sound’s also pretty much perfect for my needs. There’s some things that it can’t do (or I don’t know how to make yet), such as nice warm pads and strings, but most of the time I can find something I can use.

You know, those are the 2 things I rely on the music in the music I make. Likely a large reason why I don’t get along with the A4 (yet?)
I can always get what I want, and more, out of my MnM. I think that likely adds to the frustration of using the A4 and never really managing to get something out of it that I like or want to use.
On a side note, I should really try to use the A4 as a drum machine since I don’t really use my MD as a drum machine.

RyanElektric · 2013-10-20T16:40:53.000Z

You know, those are the 2 things I rely on the music in the music I make. Likely a large reason why I don’t get along with the A4 (yet?)

Yes, when I program an analog synth I do try to get warmth out of it more often than not-and when I see a analog synth this fully featured I guess I just have a hard time accepting it isn’t going to sound “Poppy” or “Ghostly”.

It is, after all, a monosynth, and the dark/sterile kinda sinister vibe of the A4 is not out of place in the realm of analog monos. But it just feels like it should be more of a sound designer than it is.

When I (or most people) go up into my brain’s internal sample library and think “analog synth”, I usually hear the two chords at the beginning of “Everybody Wants to Rule the World” or Vengelis or “Born Slippy” before I hear Bass lines. Poly Analog sounds are more iconic to people who spent their formative years listening to them, probably (people born in the late '70s and early 80’s- born in '83 and the sounds of Oberheims and Prophets were likely burned into my subconscious by the time I was 2 years old.

SB-SIX · 2013-10-20T16:52:02.000Z

I liked it, then didnt like it so much because it was sounding a bit thin, now back to liking it. The most important part for me was dialling in the right amount of feedback/overdrive to fatten up the sound. That on top of the crazy modulation/plocking gives me some nice evolving sounds.

void · 2013-10-20T17:07:57.000Z

the only serious (because likely unfixable) thing i don’t like about it is that it can sound very shitty if the filters are overloaded (e.g. by using too much of that feedback osc or overdrive w/ ext inputs…)… like a nasty shart.

AdmiralBumbleBee · 2013-10-25T15:12:37.000Z

Some things I’ve learned in the last week or so of ~60 hours on the A4:

[ul]
[li]Nearly every sound I’ve created that I like, from lead to bass and everything in between and off to the side, has been started at a lower octave. The bottom LED fully lit seems to be the ideal octave to start working on sounds from. It’s my experience that you get a lot more of the richness of the oscillators in the easily audible range as opposed to the ‘default’ octave. It’s also easier to tweak the tuning parameter than to transpose the pattern.[/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]The envelopes are brilliant. A huge portion of the flexibility of the A4 comes from the many shapes/types of envelops and being able to modulate six destinations with them (4 user assignable + 2 filter). I’ve been able to make some absolutely excellent 1osc mono pads using nothing but the the envelopes and every other parameter page untouched.[/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]The default sound SUCKS. I will be making a thread about this. When you clear a sound, multiple parameters are set in a really stupid way in a non-zero position. That has been a behemoth of an obstacle in my journey with the A4. Specifically the filter section defaults make nearly everything sound weak and ‘thin’ by default.[/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]A few big things I really use my analogs for (pun intended) is strings and pads. Both of these require careful tuning of the amp envelope for the sound to be recognizable. It’s been my experience that the analog four’s amp envelope is difficult to get right. With nearly any other analog synth, setting the amp envelope is very quick and satisfying. It’s one of the big ‘tweak a slider and get instant satisfaction’ aspects of analog synthesis. I find myself needing to spend a lot more time on the amp page on the A4 to get the envelope I want.[/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]Remember how much I like using the envelopes? You have more than 4-6 envelopes: use them! You can use the LFO’s fade parameter along with a ‘ONE’ trig mode to turn the LFO page into an envelope. Creative use of the ‘HLD’ and ‘HLF’ trig modes make for some greatly inspiring modulations[/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]The FX are weak, uninspiring and useless. Use the FX! I’ve quite a large collection of delay and reverb units, and the analog four’s chorus/reverb/delay are strictly middle of the pack sounding in my opinion, except… The FX LFO. It doesn’t matter how ‘not amazing’ the reverb is when you start to use the FX LFO to modulate the decay time with a ‘ONE’ trig mode to get an amazing burst of “walking out of the cathedral” sounding reverb. The ability to tune the FX to the actual pattern/sound you’re making is not something you’re going to easily do with your reverb 2016, no matter how many magnitude’s better the 2016 sounds than the analog four’s reverb. Remember that the LFO section can be used as an envelope too! I’ve made some mind blowing sounds with a short noise burst, and the LFO used as an envelope on the delay’s time and feedback parameters.[/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]The triangle waveform is sad. My favorite waveform to use in the absence of sine, and it’s underwhelming on the A4. If anything, it’s difficult to get enough signal out of it to feed the filters or simply to compete with saw/pulse based sounds in volume. The balancing act necessary to use the triangle waveform on the analog four is exacerbated by the fact that the same device is often outputting 3 other individual sounds that may not be based on the same anemic waveform. Other synths obviously have similar problems when using sine/triangle waveforms, but the architecture of the A4 makes using triangle more annoying.[/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]I’ve seen complaints about the pallid and meager basslines the analog four often puts out compared to the big boys of analog basslines. Big basslines = use the highpass filter. To some folks this should be obvious, and to some it’s a paradox. High resonance and filter tracking with the highpass filter inject your enfeebled basslines with steroids. Tune the highpass frequency and filter tracking just right so it moves along with the fundamental frequency of your bassline. The A4 puts out some profound bowel-shaking bass.[/li]
[/ul]

[ul]
[li]I won’t go too deep into it, but with some creativity your analog four is a marginally limited 4 voice poly synth. Between having 2 oscillators with 5th subs and tuning capabilities, there is a slightly limited, but still surprising, number of chords you can produce with a single track. Combine this with p-locks and you can have an unlimited varietly chord progressions on a single track. I think there is a thread or two about this somewhere. Maybe someone can link it?[/li]
[/ul]

There are some other things, but I can’t think of them right now. If some other things cross my mind I’ll update this thread.

Hopefully some of my epiphanies can help out at least one person The A4 is just a totally different synth than what is out there and it needs to be approached differently than sitting down at a 106.

avantronica · 2013-10-25T16:34:31.000Z

great post, but seriously dude “the fx is weak”

no frickin’ way

like the rest of the synth you’ve got to learn to tame it
i am doing stuff with the fx i couldn’t have dreamed of and that you certainly couldn’t do with any other synth, possible even DAW !
and i am NOT talkin about plocking either

this thing is craaaaaaazy flexible

integral fx is the biggest single plus point about this after the obvious stuff

analog sound / elektron sequencer / modulation bonanza

the fx are fantastic if you have fantastic imagination !

we just need to nag for fine control on the delay

whet · 2013-10-25T16:46:23.000Z

I like the FX of the A4 aswell, you can allready get crazy stuff if you just modulate the FX sends on the tracks, let the FX feed eachother etc. .

AdmiralBumbleBee · 2013-10-25T17:02:03.000Z

""avantronica"":

great post, but seriously dude “the fx is weak”

no frickin’ way

like the rest of the synth you’ve got to learn to tame it
i am doing stuff with the fx i couldn’t have dreamed of and that you certainly couldn’t do with any other synth, possible even DAW !
and i am NOT talkin about plocking either

this thing is craaaaaaazy flexible

integral fx is the biggest single plus point about this after the obvious stuff

analog sound / elektron sequencer / modulation bonanza

the fx are fantastic if you have fantastic imagination !

we just need to nag for fine control on the delay

I feel like you didn’t actually read that section entirely I said nearly the exact same thing you just did (minus the part about the delay).

AdmiralBumbleBee · 2013-10-25T17:02:42.000Z

""whet"":

I like the FX of the A4 aswell, you can allready get crazy stuff if you just modulate the FX sends on the tracks, let the FX feed eachother etc. .

Like what I said in the paragraph you’re citing?

avantronica · 2013-10-25T17:27:18.000Z

that’s a fair cop dude, i hadn’t got through your text ‘completely’ , i just couldn’t believe you’d pan the fx by saying they were weak, that’s all, nothing personal, i’m glad you’re excited enough by it to write so much, it’s good for the community and the future for continued development if it’s a source of such passion and interest

my epiphany this week has been wrt the fx and how fantastically they can be integrated into a performance, i always thought they sounded good, especially for an fx section (rather than a dedicated box) - but there is no way you could do so much if the fx were external, no way !

i’ve put in many hours on this recently and it’s rewarding me more and more and more in so many ways, that is the bottom line, it’s in there if you go looking

AdmiralBumbleBee · 2013-10-25T17:36:08.000Z

""avantronica"":

i’ve put in many hours on this recently and it’s rewarding me more and more and more in so many ways, that is the bottom line, it’s in there if you go looking

That is totally the truth. I think you have to work at the machine a bit more than other analog synths, but the rewards are there. In my experience the tradeoff is that ‘simpler’ sounds are more work, but there’s a lot more depth available, specifically in regards to any sort of sound that is sequenced or modulated.
I’m glad I’ve spent so much time with it. However, if you told me before hand that I’d not appreciate the A4 as much as I do my MnM or OT until I put 80-100 hours into it… I’d have just traded it for another MnM on the spot I’m glad that didn’t happen now.

whet · 2013-10-25T17:37:14.000Z

""AdmiralBumbleBee"":

[quote=“whet”]I like the FX of the A4 aswell, you can allready get crazy stuff if you just modulate the FX sends on the tracks, let the FX feed eachother etc. .

Like what I said in the paragraph you’re citing?[/quote]
I meant the sends on the synth tracks. I totaly agree with what you said about the FX LFO its realy powerfull.

AdmiralBumbleBee · 2013-10-25T18:06:45.000Z

""whet"":

[quote=“AdmiralBumbleBee”][quote=“whet”]I like the FX of the A4 aswell, you can allready get crazy stuff if you just modulate the FX sends on the tracks, let the FX feed eachother etc. .

Like what I said in the paragraph you’re citing?[/quote]
I meant the sends on the synth tracks. I totaly agree with what you said about the FX LFO its realy powerfull.[/quote]
Ah. That’s why I asked I haven’t even played with automating the sends much yet! Good idea to explore today.

Polden · 2013-10-25T18:24:46.000Z

If you ask me, the advent of analog four has been quite an epiphany for my (very humble) musical life.
It came in as my first analogue and my first standalone machine, after some 15 years of monitor staring and VAs, and it has been liberating.
The sequencer is pretty awesome, so many modulation destinations, a sonic richness to explore.
Sure it has some quirks, as any machine have, but I am quite confident in the early age of its OS.
I do not find the triangle OSC low output to be that annoying, as I prefer to keep OSC level low anyway, to better exploit the timbral depth of the filter section, so I have plenty of headroom to compensate. We are lucky enough to have three gain stages,(at OSC level, at AMP level and at TRACK level) so there is no need to saturate the filter input by cranking up the OSC level. To me this is a waste, as the filter +overdrive section really give its best at lower input gain. Elektron should lower the OSC level in the default sound, to better showcase the potentiality of this machine from a sonic standpoint.

mistakem · 2013-10-25T22:43:10.000Z

What I have learned about the A4 is that if you want to turn on a synth and just start playing some nice sounds - this is not the synth to reach for. This is a synth that requires very careful programming, it forces you to really listen to the way each parameter interacts with the sound and to refine it to perfection.

My epiphany came after I bought the Korg MS-20 Mini, I realised just how little I knew about synthesis. Because there are so many knobs on the MS2-20, you can quickly turn them and hear what each parameter does instantly. I then came back to the A4 after quite some time and was blown away…

Use the effects, use the LFO’s, sculpt them to perfection, don’t just use the default parameters, detune oscillators, use the 5th sub osc, create percussion sounds (I have created my favorite kick drum on the A4), use the performance section, you can make some amazing build-ups…

Incredible machine, deep and highly rewarding if you are willing to give it a chance…

DaCaVa · 2013-10-25T23:41:21.000Z

For me, the A4 sounds really nice with very little work. I have only one issue with the sound, which I will get to below.

One of the blurbs above mentioned how this isn’t really suited for the studio and more for live… well, I would have to 100% agree with this statement. Anytime I see a stereo out only, kits and patterns saving all sorts of data - - continuous encoders etc… I see a machine for live performance. So the A4, paired with a couple choice elektron boxes provides you with everything you need for live electronic music. Everything syncs up perfectly, you can change patterns on 1 machine and all the droids will follow suit. When you switch patterns, your in completely different sonic territory, pending on what you have saved in your patterns/kits. So… yes… studio…maybe, but DEFINITELY a groovebox for the new era.

Regarding the effects… I would say that the effects on this machine are perfect for the sounds it creates. I often record the stereo out of this machine into my AI with no post processing/compression/limiting… nothing… and it sounds good. One of the reasons I chose this machine over many others is because the effects ARE good and I have limited space, so I cant by a couple desktops and a slew of guitar effect pedals… I’m pretty much stuck with size of one desk. So… for me AGAIN the stereo out is not an issue… it would only be an issue if I couldn’t add the effects I wanted to the individual tracks… but since I can (within the A4), I have no complaints. (this is one of the reasons I never got into the blofeld… I just couldn’t get passed that really weird digital sounding reverb). I like the sound of the overdrive… it can add some nice crunch to bass lines, the reverb to me is a thing of beauty… better than any reverb I ever used in any DAW or any groovebox and can hold it’s own with the guitar pedal reverb boxes I tinkered with. I also think the delay has quite a bit of charm and the way you can bleed it to the reverb is kind of cool (I’ve yet to use this function on a track).

Okay… so now for the bad. To me the sounds are very CONSTRAINED and lack any wild peaks. When I’ve programmed a 303 type bass synth, and I start tweaking the filters, I can get some screams out of it, but… the actual volume of this synth doesn’t change… again… good for live, but sometimes you almost want things to get out of control… and when I jam on the A4, things seldom go out of control. I can get some amazing warm bass lines, synths, strings… but it always feels like there is a sort of protective blanket over-top the music, keeping it together.

The other thing I found odd is how the synth patches behave differently when your changing octaves… don’t know what is up with that, but I often can’t use the same 303 patch twice. I usually have to program these from scratch and they’re pretty much unique for whatever scale, and octave I’m jamming on.

Regarding the love/hate thing… well here’s the rub. With the machinedrum, when I hit play the first time I bought this, and I played that horrible preset patch… I thought “Dear God, what did I just waste my money on”, and I spent the better part of a month just trying to make it sound nice, and while I was doing this… all sorts of strange music and sounds came out, stuff I never dreamed of in my head… as if the machine was controlling me. The music that came out of using just the machinedrum, sounded nothing like anything I made in the past. It was new, fresh, often times shitty, but GOD DAMN IT, IT WAS MINE!!! Now for the A4… it didn’t take me as long to squeeze some passable sounds out of this machine, but I started making music, the music was warm, melodic, well received… but it just lacked a certain something. For starters, it sounded very much like the stuff I made with Propellerheads REASON. Although the enjoyment I had from making this music with actual hardware is 10fold more than making it with software, it just had this sort of really nice, play it in a car, or when people are over sort of thing going on, and I’m no professional musician, nor do I have any desire to make music you can play for Mom (or anyone else for that matter).

When I make machinedrum music… it’s angular, harsh, often times just HORRIBLE… but… it’s really cool, because these #ucked up sounds happen, toms start screaming, samples get mangled… and all the while, it maintains this cold, impersonal space.

When I make A4 music, it’s warm… like eating meat and potatoes or getting a hug from Mom… it sounds full and nice… but it’s just a little more predictable. When I’m tweaking stuff… I know exactly what will happen, when I tweak on the machinedrum… I’m at God’s mercy, and he’s often merciless.

Just my $0.02… Cheers:)

jonah · 2013-10-31T04:00:32.000Z

Here’s my love/hate list. More love than hate and most of my issues go away when I move on from making sounds to using them.

I love using neighbor tracks especially combined with playing the filter rez.

I love performance mode although it’s very much trial and error. I hope performance mode gets expanded on. I dunno, maybe within a knob macro have knobs able to scale in relation to another, using the envelope shapes with the same parameters from the LFO page. Same deal with performance so for instance, moving knob a would scale knob b exponentially negative and knob c linear, positive and so on.

I don’t think the interface is quite as smooth to operate as the rest of the elektron boxes, yes, even the octatrack! Sure you can do everything without a lot of menu diving or combos, but I reach for the wrong knobs more.

Maybe it’s just my crappy brain, but 5 knobs in a row gets slightly less immediate, in terms of reaching for the right one without thinking. Maybe if E+J (or A +F?) were assignable to anything or to control performance macros?

Might seem strange, but i’d dig more pages with bigger graphics. The Monomachine graphics seem ridiculous and almost childishly huge and that’s a good thing! Feels more like play. I’d be happy to tap the osc buttons more, especially because the noise page is so lonely!

I see the analog4 largely as the spiritual successor to the monopoly. I think the 4 was kind of misleading, for me at least, in that the 4 isn’t so much that you have 4 tracks to work with, but that there is a great, to me at least, sense of cohesion capable between the 4 tracks. I got more into it when I stopped treating the tracks as four independent elements. I think there’s a reason it only has two outs.

To me, it’s seems the easiest, most painfree elektron box for switching things up on the fly. Once you get into it, so much love! It’s kits from the old school mixed with (savable!) scenes from the octatrack.

Make a sound, use a few patterns, sample it, save some sounds, load some new stuff, make some new stuff, repeat. I find it’s the most pro-ADD box they make, as long as you have the attention span to make sounds.

To that end, I’d like to see a more “musical” performance based implementation of things like selecting track sounds, and I think editing and p-locking those (looooooong) parameter lists is a bit too error prone.

Still, the majority of other synths, analog or digital(!) are way more cumbersome to change things up.

The more I build up my own sounds and kits the smoother and more enjoyable the experience gets. There are some good presets, I think, maybe? but I can’t remember what they are and it defeats being able to quickly switch sounds if I have to audition a ton, so I don’t!

For me at least, it was helpful to think of some of the individual sounds more as templates with modulation routings and envelope shapes.

billywood · 2013-11-09T19:06:47.000Z

""Polden"":

I do not find the triangle OSC low output to be that annoying, as I prefer to keep OSC level low anyway, to better exploit the timbral depth of the filter section, so I have plenty of headroom to compensate. We are lucky enough to have three gain stages,(at OSC level, at AMP level and at TRACK level) so there is no need to saturate the filter input by cranking up the OSC level. To me this is a waste, as the filter +overdrive section really give its best at lower input gain. Elektron should lower the OSC level in the default sound, to better showcase the potentiality of this machine from a sonic standpoint.

Somebody make that tip a sticky!
I’ve had my A4 for a couple of days and the first thing that I noticed was how hard it was to make a kickdrum or triangle sub-bass that could compete with the volume levels of other sounds.
The first thing I do with a new sound is turn the OSC level down to 50. I’m so glad I realised this early on, before I go and create a bank of sounds that are all too loud.
Headroom headroom headroom.

RyanElektric · 2013-11-09T22:09:59.000Z

Pretty much agree with everything you said there. It’s a little too “safe”. You have a moment where you say to yourself “I guess that’s it?”. Thing is, noodling around on an analog synth that has the potential to get completely out of control if you take your attention away from it is very risky for live performers who are also minding 2-3 other sequences on other Elektron boxes…

Bottom line is, it is an incredible achievement from a design point of view and a big step forward for the world of Producers/DJs. I just got back from messing with the Bass Station 2 and the MicroBrute (they were sold out but had the display model)- as my Pro One has been needing repair and now is at the repair shop, it’s been a while since I just wailed away on a real analog monosynth:

Nothing compares to a set of keys and knobs. The BSII is, frankly, an incredible bargain at $499- the only complaint I have is that the filter is just a touch steppy and isn’t as resonant as I’d like it to be for jamming out, bit it’s perfect for rounding out grade-A classic basslines and (unlike the A4), maintains the sound quality in higher octaves to play leads on the most simple and powerful 32 step sequencer around.

The MicroBrute kicks ass- except the micro keys- the worst feeling keyboard I’ve ever touched- it’s just for playing in sequences and transposing them and arps, but it’s almost unfit for THAT purpose.

Point is the A4 isn’t long for my studio =(

johnny · 2013-11-12T09:14:27.000Z

""DaCaVa"":

One of the blurbs above mentioned how this isn’t really suited for the studio and more for live… well, I would have to 100% agree with this statement.

I disagree with this completely. I’ve had the A4 hooked up in my studio with all 4 tracks sequenced from the DAW with MANY parameters simultanously automated. I used it as an FX box and mixer for my other analog stuff when recording those into my DAW. This thing is crazy flexible. The depth as a sound design tool is brilliant for an analog. I’ve been replacing tracks and parts previously made on complex soft synths like Zebra and I’m suprised at how many of those patches the A4 can replicate.
I personally don’t mind recording one part at a time through the stereo outs. I enjoy focussing on one part at time and playing with more parameters to create more variation and expression.