join the resistance
NANOLOOP TECHNO RESISTANCE
in my setups, there’s the limit: 12 mixer channels.
so, the live rig is only 2 boxes (3 stereo pairs each) + mixer + input device (Launchpad Pro).
2 Likes
I’m in a similar position. Much more productive in ableton but it gets boring quickly. Any tips for just improving the tactile approach and having some buttons/faders to play with?
MPC Live for me is great compromise between hardware and daw, you can just jam on it and see where it goes but also dig in deeper.
I was hardware-only for two decades and only used Cakewalk to record the audio from my synths, no MIDI. But I sold it all (several times actually over the years) and now just have Ableton Live and an Akai Force, and I haven’t been more productive (and content). I’m actually finishing songs more often now and I’m enjoying it more. I was just overwhelmed with all the hardware, too many cables everywhere, too many devices to juggle, and too much to learn. I won’t be getting tired of Ableton any time soon, there’s just too many interesting devices.
1 Like
Same here. Just MPC and sometimes Ableton Live
1 Like
I’m replying to an old comment thread but this is what I’m working through at the moment. (In addition to not acquiring or selling any gear this coming 2024.)
I have a decent amount of hardware I use in the ideation stage but I’m pushing my songwriting / DAW workflow towards 100% audio so I don’t have to deal with the recall problem. Plus “playing” my synth and layering overdubs with manual parameter tweaking is part of my vibe.
I have a few sequencers / samplers that push me in drastically different directions (Syntakt, SP404, Polyend Tracker) so I like to construct a bunch of wips/bones and just leave these on these devices. When I’m in the DAW, I’ll browse through these and allow myself to drastically tweak them if needed. These aren’t songs, just starting points to me.
Likewise, once I record and print some live tweaking of those bones to audio, there is nothing holding me back from drastically resampling / changing it after the fact. I work a lot with sample based genres, so I’m basically just making my own samples to mangle.
Something that felt important to discover about my workflow is that I don’t like complications.
I’m just not going to try to create DAW projects that recall all my synths and their patch states anymore. Likewise, I prefer not to deal with hardware as “Midi instruments” and remember to bounce the audio - so the move towards audio makes the most sense and keeps me moving forward.
I’m mostly saying this aloud in an attempt to make it stick lol. In reality I end up in a frenzy of whatever method / box is appealing to me that day.
2 Likes
This is actually my (more or less) exact feeling when it comes to ITB - too many options, no dedicated hardware 
. Happy to hear it works for you, of course.
1 Like
I just procrastinate to buy the new mouse and keyboard (or just to clean it). I’m mostly working in a DAW and it’s even more inconvenient and no fun with non-responsive mouse wheel 
I used a lot of plugins for the recent small project and was really surprised to see such a huge latency if you have just 5-10 synths and 5-10 effects. I so got used to work with wav files from hardware sessions, so I even forgot how different it is with plugins…
I use Bitwig and find it’s pretty reasonable even on lower end devices.
And you ain’t lying about the mouse and keeb ha. We can’t escape the hardware purchase itch.
I recently got an MX Master 3s specifically with Daw use in mind (that horizontal scroll is superb)
But I returned it because the actual scroll wheel kind of sucked. Maybe I got a dud.
I used to have the original 3 and it was great. New one felt laggy. I spent a fair amount of time playing with the settings as well. No dice.
With MIDI controllers being relatively affordable, what’s worked for me is having a little variety in the mix. I’m no keys player by any means, but I am able to punch in some playing and I can sense the difference between mini keys and the big ones.
I find that swapping in/out different controllers for different levels of control is fun. I have a full sized LK49 which allows me to really get as close to losing the mouse & keys as anything (mainly due to the fact that it supports keystrokes.) This is great for an all in one setup. Then I have a mini pairing of the Minilab 3 & Launchpad Pro. I absolutely love the Launchpad. It’s a cliche at this point, but it really is great for trying ideas out when you want something other than white & black keys, so you tend to come up with different stuff. Put that in combo with the Minilab which has keys, pots & faders, and you kinda have it all (except the keystrokes.)
All of these setups have pros and cons, but they are both easy to set up and don’t come with the headaches of hardware since they all integrate with Live seamlessley, so the setup time is essentially zero.
1 Like
Nowadays I have a small hardware setup with a digitakt and 3 synths. The hardware workflow mimics my DAW workflow. Only extra step is recording everything into the DAW, which is not much of an issue for me since I only record 2-3 pieces at most.
I finish everything in the DAW, but I like the hardware arrangement style instead of dragging blocks around in the DAW. If I am fully ITB, I do the basic jam with a hardware controller so I can live perform the arrangement just like I would do with my hardware.
For me, the arrangement part is the part I want down as soon as possible. I can always edit it in the DAW later on, but having an arrangement opposed to a loop when I open up a session the next day provides a massive speed increase for me when it comes to finishing music.
1 Like
I have same challenge. What I do is to record jams as stems on a recorder USB drive and use those in Ableton to finish songs. That way I can have my creative jam fun on hardware and then do the mixing, multi track edits just in the Ableton and this helps my worklow as I can worry about DAW stuff and not deal with audio interface issues and what not. I like to take these jam stems from my external hardware synths and use with nice software plugins in Ableton so I can use stock 606 drum loops to supplement my bass and melodic jams easier.
1 Like
Great topic, I’ve been thinking about this lately. (And over the past 5 years probably.)
I find it really hard to bring the hardware and software worlds together. Like my brain can’t integrate the two - and if I do use both; I have trouble accepting the sounds of each existing in the same universe, so to speak.
3 Likes
A similar comparison could be make between a word-processor and a typewriter. Give a modern person a typewriter, and they may end up with a bunch of disjointed ideas on various pieces of paper, not sure how to proceed.
Then give them a word-processor (to which they are accustomed), and the words, sentences and paragraphs form themselves into a finished product.
Using this somewhat flawed comparison, the typewriter ends up looking like a pretty ineffective tool. Until you consider all the authoring that has been done on typewriters. Apparently, Iris Murdoch submitted all her manuscripts in freehand.
It used to be that, in order to produce something, you had to approach it with a coherent vision, a compositional technique, a unifying concept, etc. In 2023 we are so lucky to have machines that work with us even when we have no idea what we’re doing.
I listened to a radio commentary which aired on some anniversary of the release of Microsoft PowerPoint. The commentator lamented on how that technology allowed so many poorly conceived ideas to be given a veneer of legitimacy.
Same goes with DAWs. Great for sticking a bunch of shit together, then applying turd polish.
2 Likes
I’ve been thinking more about this and I realize I spend most of my time working with samples and FX, I’m not really a synth guy. So that means simpler. Probably a mouse is best for simpler and maybe some rotaries for the FX devices
time to revisit this thread.
apps like Drambo and BAM made me love software and have fun with it.
but they are not real DAWs, they are positioned as «groovebox apps».
DAWs are still on cumbersome side. i use them when i need to polish my stuff – and this has not much to do with fun, unless you really love stacking EQs and compressors and all that boring stuff.
oh, and dozens of tracks. other people’s DAW projects really horrify me with that.
1 Like
Absolutely on the same page. I’m using a DAW to arrange my tracks and apply a bit of EQ/compressor. But it’s not fun, I don’t enjoy my time in there, it’s just a necessary work environment that I’m trying to get out of as quick as possible. You’ve put that pretty well somewhere in this thread where you said you play your hardware and you work with your DAW, spot on for me.
I was shocked to hear that Ableton has a cap to how many parameters you can assign to MIDI controllers, I think it was 16. A friend of mine who always was an ITB and Ableton guy recently switched over to Bitwig and bought that cheap MIDI keyboard that was originally designed for use with FL Studio. He spent a few days mapping several banks of 4 knobs with shift functions (so 8 knobs) to all of his favorite Roland plugins. Now he has total hands on control over everything he’s using and is really happy. It’s pretty close to a digi box where you have 8 knobs for different pages. I would miss the connection to the box and you still have to look at the laptop screen, but it was great to see him finally finding the perfect DAW interface with relatively cheap gear. Maybe something that @Thespa could also do?
1 Like
We got some organizing tools on Elektron boxes like the Arranger on the OT and the much claimed-for-years song mode on the Digis.
One point seems to be that creating is fun, organizing is less.
Since organizing is doable with boxes, why not giving it a try?
It keeps the flexibility of the boxes sequencing without having to work with stems. So all in all, it depends if I wanna work with stems or trigs.
I’d rather all sequence from one box like the OT and keep the fun in a live situation. If it’s for a recording then the fun relies also in mixing, mastering where a screen and tons of plugins are enjoyable.
1 Like
as for me, arranging is great fun.
but i prefer groovebox-style apps for that because i always arrange with live performance in mind.
i used to use DAWs for that, and i’m happy i don’t have to anymore.
1 Like