Evening all. Greetings from grey London. This seems like a friendly forum (compared to many) so I hope you all prove me right!
I’m considering my (sort of) first Elektron purchase (and first piece of real hardware outside of MIDI controllers) and I’m trying to make the right choice. I’ve been using DAWs and software/plugins for years but I think I’ve decided that I just don’t want to be stuck in front of the computer any more. I’m sure it’s a common problem. I’m a software develop by trade so I get 8 hours a day in front of my screen already!
I suppose I’m really trying to decide what will give me the best self-contained experience to start with. I know my own limitations and I don’t expect to be knocking out whole tracks at a professional level - I simply don’t have the ability or the discipline and I think that’s why I don’t enjoy the software any more. I have loads of plugins and it’s just too many choices, too many controls, too many everything! I want to get back to enjoying the process and connecting well with a limited set of tools.
I have a confession to make (and I risk some ridicule but what the hell) - I bought a Digitakt recently and then almost immediately returned it. I think I had a bit of a freak-out about the price after years of using cheap software. I actually really got a buzz when I fired it up and was able to program some beats from scratch without a computer (it was very intuitive). I have since sat staring at Ableton Live a few times feeling stone cold. I’ve sold my MIDI controllers and I think I know what I want to do, or at least a few choices. I think I won’t freak out with the next purchase because I think I’ve had time to think carefully about what I want and what I don’t want.
Ableton + Push - it really looks like you can make music with the laptop closed, but it still means I need a computer. But it really does look very impressive in terms of integrations and a 90% standalone experience. And maybe capable of live improvisation too.
Cheap groovebox - Novation Circuit, Electribe etc - To be honest they seem very limited, cheap build and uninspiring to my ears. Thin sound and loads of menu-diving. Not too keen.
Premium device - Elektron! I think these are clearly good quality, well-built, well-designed machines.
So, I guess my question is this - what would be a good self-contained groovebox from the Elektron range? I have seen some interesting videos of the Analog Rytm MKII but I have also read some worrying posts about overheating and related hardware problems. But I know enough to know that 8 voices can go a long way. Which is, indeed, why both the Digitakt and Digitone are also clearly very capable. The Octatrack looks amazing and has the reputation as “Ableton without the computer” but I suspect I’ll just find that overwhelming to start with. Plenty of posts here about how complex it is.
The Digitakt seems to have an almost cult following as far as I can tell, but if I’m looking for self-contained then would a Digitone be better? That is to say - is something that doesn’t need any material to be imported/sampled make it more self-contained? It’s obviously capable of producing amazing full tracks by itself. There are some very talented people here because there’s some great tunes coming from the forum community here - I’m very impressed and it proves what can be done with a single machine.
If you’ve read this far - thanks very much. I know this is a very open question that’s probably been asked many times before but I really appreciate any help or advice. I am open to the idea of buying one machine and (if I get bitten by the bug) buying another one.
From my experience the most beginner friendly box which has the ability to be entirely self contained and pretty much a DAW in a box is MPC live specially if you come from the DAW world. I would have suggested something like the OT but honestly for someone that has DAW experience with limited Elektron experience its a bit of a leap.
I have a Push but when I use it I end up using the computer about 50-50, so if you are looking to completely free yourself then its not that great of a choice. Its the best hybrid choice in my opinion though.
Cheaper grooveboxes like the circuit are cool to jam out and come up with quick sketches but I dont feel they have all the features required to be completely self contained.
If you decided for sure that you want to get an Elektron I would suggest an OT despite being the hardest to learn. If you returned the DT because you felt it was lacking some features then the OT might be good, but its a very different workflow than a DAW and takes a bit of time to get used to (not as much as most think though).
I still feel that if you want to be out the box and but still like the DAW workflow look into MPC, I would get one right away if I was not working with Ableton already.
A self contained groovebox? I’m thinking a Digitakt would suit your needs. Octatrack would also be good as long as you don’t mind the initial loading of a bunch of samples.
I guess it just depends what you’re looking to accomplish. You want to get away from Ableton so I assume that means you want to make whole tracks inside of a box? Songs from beginning to end? Or do you just want to play around and make some beats and have fun?
In my personal experience, having just a drum machine is extremely uninspiring…You can make a beat and then that’s it. I’d rather work with melody and harmony, myself. Now I know you can load some synth hits (bass, lead or otherwise) onto the Analog Rytm and the Digitakt, so those may be alright. But again–you’d have to get those from a computer or a synth or whatever. I’m also not sure how flexible those machines are with samples. I mean that literally–I have no experience with them. For the price of the Rytm Mk2 you could get a Digitakt+A4 Mk1 or DN. Those two together will get you pretty close.
And then if you don’t mind the initial loading of samples/loops onto a device in the first place, I would just go all out and get an Octatrack.
Abelton+Push is a lot of money, and although as you say theoretically you can step away from the computer, that seems more like a marketing ploy to me than anything. Again…You’d (probably) have to set up all of the drum racks and FX and all that stuff and then just use the Push.
EDIT: Oh yeah like @Amku said, check out an MPC Live. A friend of mine got one of those for the same reason you would. He wanted to loop and sample and create songs without the use of a DAW. I think with the touchscreen and everything it’s kind of laid out more like a DAW, too. Has loads of samples, FX, etc. Worth looking into.
I think we share a similar view . . .
I turned away from Ableton and Push and the laptop gradually over the last 2 years
I spent 10 years with Ableton being my way of working. VSTs were regularly purchase with me thinking that more choices were the way forward. But I did far less with the more I got.
Then I bought a Machinedrum.
The hands on nature of the device was a great feeling. The versatility of the machine was incredible but offered less choice than my computer. . . and I got more done with less choice!
Since then . . .
Analog Four MK1
Analog Four MK2
Digitakt
Analog Heat
Octatrack MK2
Digitone
I now have only the Digitone and 2 Octatracks (and a DFAM and Moog Grandmother).
I’ve had an MPC Live for 4 days. Too much like a computer and, for me, too powerful. So close to Ableton that I might as well just boot my MacBook up.
For me, the Octatrack is THE machine. It is not Ableton in a box.; not even close. But it is the most versatile, creative, powerful machine in a restricted, non computer way.
It’s got more depth than you could ever really consider (although there are some guys on here who have gone to amazing places in exploration).
The reputation for complexity is mainly caused by its paradigm. However, I find the Octatrack far easier to interface with than the MPC Live.
The Digitone is a great machine, and paired with the Digitakt would be great. I share mine between my Octatracks and it serves them really well.
Using hardware is fashionable. But there’s a reason for it: the relationship between you and the machine can be far more involved in my experience. I’m not sure how my Octatracks could be replaced. They really are something beyond a metal box and circuit boards. And every difficult moment and battle I’ve had with my understanding of the device has only reinforced my respect for the machine. Consider getting one. They’re far from perfect but they are very good.
I’ve done stuff with all kinds of DAWs/Plug-ins/other software too, until i end up in a similar situation, it was too much of everything. I also work as a network and system administrator, meaning sitting in front of a computer most of the day. At some point i did not feel like it anymore. I wanted to make tunes, but not with a computer, so…
I was interested on the Octatrack for some time and with the price it took me some more time to finaly buy it, but i don’t regret my decision. The only thing i missed with the Octatrack was a real synth. I know that it is possible to use single cycle waveforms to mimic some kind of synth, i’ve done it, but that wasn’t really what i was after, so i have sold all my remaining software synth stuff and bought a Digitone recently. For me, the both are an excellent pair. Octatrack for drums/percussion, records, samples and the Digitone for bass, leads, pads…
I am a bit worn off, i guess what I actually wanted to say is…the Octatrack is a great self-contained groovebox if you load up the flash card with samples.
I can also recommend the Octatrack, it just allows you to think what would be cool with the 8 tracks. I still create in Abelton but mostly for the purpose to feed my own material into Octatrack, and to see what i can do with the created sounds. Its a good teacher for electronic music. I pair it with a digitone currently, sometimes with my P12 module.
Welcome to ‘nauts, mr @tallrobphilp. I hope you enjoy our company. I dont give buying advices but if you care to talk about creativity and sound, I’m all ears. Also, you are welcome to join our track challengs, there is one going down as we speak https://www.elektronauts.com/t/halloween-track-challenge/
No it isn’t, don’t get me wrong, you can do great stuff with the Octatrack only of course, but it doesn’t gave me personally the experience which i was after.
It seems most people that start with software then move to hardware are disappointed. It’s more money for less features.
To me it offers more than just features, it offers an enjoyable experience & for that it is worth the price of hardware, but I didn’t start with software. I started making beats without even using a sequencer.
I hear with Push 2 you still have to do a lot on the computer (I too use a computer for work 8 hours a day). So I got a Maschine Mk3 (about a year ago) & couldn’t be happier. I wanted the strength of software without feeling like I’m sitting in front of a computer. I actually close my laptop when I use it.
Maschine isn’t a DAW tho & it can’t do all that Ableton does. It is a groovebox. It’s simple, but has a lot of features & comes with a lot of great vst’s. I admit I don’t use them, but my brother does & his beats sound nice
Just throwing it out there… I think it would be worth looking into Maschine Mk3 as well, I think it’s like $600. That is, if price, features (getting the most for your money) & the need to not stare into a computer screen & use a mouse to make music are important to you.
Workflow is important, there are so many amazing machines out there. I admit I am an MPC girl, but it’s because I love the workflow. Maschine Mk3 has a similar workflow to MPC’s which is another reason I got it. I would love a Digitakt or Octatrack… but they are completely different from an MPC. So if you are specific about your workflow (& can’t play with anything) think about what is important to you in a workflow.
Have not tried the larger maschines but I have heard you dont really need look at the computer as much, with my Push 2 it always feels like an add-on to the computer (a very nice add-on).
I have never worked with a DAW before. So I quess you should call me DAWless. I started my journey in Elektron with the easy to use (in Elektron terms) Digitakt. Although it is said to be an Drumcomputer it is so much more. Just plug in a headphone and a separate jack for sampling your phone or other synths. Then mangle and mix them together.
Found myself lost in the rhythm and flow many hours just with the Digitakt. It is heaps of fun. Added a Digitone later on and those two are a match made in heaven.
After those two I have added the A4 MKII and Rytm MKII to my Elektron collection. Also many fun, but they are deeper to program and a little less jammy on the fly as the Digitakt.
Hope my experience could help you. Whatever Elektron you buy, give yourself some fair time to get to know it. Learn its behavior and limitations and use both to get creative! Have fun!
If you want an easy, fun after work box which sounds good and is easy then I’m sure you could find a used toraiz sp16 cheap in town. I have one and and OT. The OT kills it on everything except sound quality and ease of use. The sp16 is great fun, but the sequencer is limited and sampler pretty basic.
Welcome…i only have a DT but that is alot of bang for a “modest” amount of buck. You can do alot…(it has admittedly made me start saving pennies for an OT and an A4)…the DT is supper easy and therefore creative output goes up exponentially!!
Its also great across a wide range. Drums. Pads. Mono Basses. Leads. Stabs. The Delay and Reverb are excellent…the only struggle can be chords but you can still make it happen through resample…Dave Mech, a user here has some videos of whole tracks / sets with just 2 DTs and a heat so you can see how far a DT reaches sonicly. You don’t need much else.
Its still verry connectable to your pc should you want… (im beta testing ob at the moment and it opens many possibilities up for connectivty so far) i dont think the OT will ever have that, but since i dont own one i can have no opinion…and from what i read you dont need it with an OT.
My current aim is to have a DT an OT and an A4…with the OT feeding to PC via OB through the DT and the A4 through OB…
All of this is probably irrelevant to what you want to achieve however. But welcome to Elktronaughts anyway, even if i sold the DT and had no Elektron gear i would still frequent this forum.
Welcome!
I seriously enjoy making music on my Digitakt and Digitone. I completely understand your “freak out” and returning of your DT. I almost did it too. But… I stuck with it and the more it reveals itself to me, the more I realize the depth of these instruments.
I can’t help with your choice, but I will say that I think this forum is a great place to be, and that I’ve learned a lot from being here and lots of great ideas are moving around.
I work with large chunks of audio, sift through slices and apply processing until I get something I couldn’t have planned for. It is stupid amounts of fun.
Hi Rob
I too am a new electronauts user, a brand-new Octatrack MKII user but an old-time musician and producer. I have been using Ableton Live for a very long time. Used to use Cakewalk and before that, Voyetra
Here is the thing, if you are looking for a quick-fix, then the Octatrack is not going to be for you, but if you are prepared to spend some time with the machine, you are in for a huge surprise!
What I recommend if you do get the Octatrack is to:
Get the entire 2 education series from ASK VIDEO. (Electron 103 and 203)
Watch the entire series back-to-back prior to getting the device.
Once it clicks (you will understand once you have gone through the footage) get your device.
Keep an eye on EBay. I got an Octatrack in MINT condition (I believe advertised as open-boxed) for $900!
Then, spend some time with the machine and a PC with your ASK VIDEO as reference. There is nothing like knowing a function to exist and not being able to quick-find it on your manual or these forums.
A month later, you should be able to make some loops that puts anything you have heard from Ableton to shame!
And this is just my opinion
kind regards
cyber7 (aka Aubrey, Cape Town, South Africa)
ps - I am slaving a TB-3 to the OTmk2 and are about to also connect a VirusB…
Thanks for all the help everyone. It’s nice to see such friendly support. This is not always the case elsewhere based on experience.
I ought to clarify - I don’t not being able to produce entire tracks, but I would like to be able to jam and perform with patterns, mutes etc. If a whole track comes out by mistake then great!
Very interested to hear the Ableton/Push feedback. It sounds like I’d still be using the computer a fair bit. The videos I’ve seen make it look like I can start with nothing and make some music but maybe it’s not quite there yet.
I’ve read many opinions that seem to suggest that the Digitakt is a “sweet spot” for Elektron gear in terms of ease of use and price etc. Maybe I’ll reconsider that. I’m very curious about the Octatrack but there is clearly a serious time investment needed. That’s OK as long as I know that going in!
Maybe I missed it, but did you clarify what kind of music you want to create and what would/could be the best workflow for you?
Since I have some of the alternatives mentioned already in the studio, I would say that I love my Octatrack, but I always missed to have a “standard-melodic” device too, if I used it as is. @sezare56 is right, we can do melodies with the OT, but having - as an example - a real synth too, makes much difference for me.
The beauty of the OT is that it’s not only a great and very versatile performance sampler, it’s a very deep MIDI sequencer for external gear too. We can easily control external midi devices like a monophonic or a polyphonic synth with the OT, return the audio to the OT and mix the external audio with the sounds of the OT. We can even record and mangle the external audio inside the OT.
This said, what about an OT combined with one of the excellent sounding sub-500€ synths on the market? Behringer Model-D, or Neutron, one of the Korgs, Moog Minitaur come to my mind and there are more
