I’m thrilled I fixed my Qu24!
Two of the 3 stereo outs have been down for a couple of weeks, I was really annoyed because having this thing repaired sounded like a huge pain.
I have checked the routing, made some tests…
Now I just figured both Aux outs had their master level set to 0.
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Does the qu series have a built in tuner? Wouldn’t mind having something to quickly check my perfourmer and matriarch on.
No tuner included in the Qu series. It includes a real-time frequency analyzer, but it is much too corse for tuning (1/3 octave bands).
BUT it has a tunable signal generator (sine and noise), which could maybe allow synth tuning by ear. (I have never tried whether the signal generator tone can be combined with an external input, though.)
Edit: yes, it works - you can send the sine signal generated by the Qu to any of its mixes and thus use it to tune a synth.
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Is anybody using their Qu series with external FX.
I am doing so but wondering if I am missing something that would allow for more intuitive control.
So far I use my group outs in mix mode to run audio out into my pedals and then in again to separate channels.
I tend to control my dry/wet ration on the pedal itself rather than in the mixer which means bringing the fader completely down on the original input containing my sound source and then turning the fader up for the group send and return track.
For some reason I feel like I’m missing something in my process as it has all been very fiddly and cumbersome.
I think the alternative would be to use your external fx as classic ‘send fx’ : the send would be on a mix (the amount of send for each channel would be defined there), the external fx needs to be set to ‘kill dry’ or 100% wet, and the level of fx return (and its eq) can be set on the mixer channels that you use for the return.
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This might be helpful… Study the document, get a controller you can program deeply (BCR2000?) and you can access most of the functions you’d want via midi CC / NRPN.
Qu doesn’t have midi I/O so you need to access it via the network socket.
You might want a BomeBox to make that super easy, but any WiFi router that’s compatible with the Qu plus a network / RTP midi setup will get you there too.
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I don’t use groups to send to FX: I use Mix outputs (on my Qu24)
- Mix 3 : DT
- Mix 4 : Bass sub
- Mix 5/6 : AH+
- Mix 7/8 : granular+tape FX
- Mix 9/10 : OT input A/B
All pre-fader, so I can use the Mix faders to adjust the wet level for each track individually.
- I switch to Mix page using e.g. the Mix 5/6 shortcut
- Every fader now adjust the FX send, while the general adjust the global FX send level
- I have of course deactivated the FX send on the track where the FX returns (ST1).
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Does this mean you cannot hear the effect one hundred percent wet as you’ll always have the dry signal coming through the Main channel?
I have a fader for the master (=dry), and a fader for the send (=wet) for each track.
The wet fader of every track are accessible once I have pressed the adequate mix shortcut.
Which means I must be routing pre-fader, in reality. I’ll edit that.
There is also a general fader for the general mix level, so I can still adjust the send for every track at the same time (e.g. if I need to boost the sub + main for every track).
And I use ST1 and ST2 tracks as FX returns, so I also have a dedicated fader for each return.
I can also use the routing page to adjust several send levels at the same time.
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I use an SQ but the principles are the same.
I also use the aux mixes for routing to FX and samplers etc like @LyingDalai:
FX 1 : SQ FX - Short reverb
FX 2: SQ FX - Long reverb
FX 3: SQ FX - Delay 1 (with a bit of send to 1 or 2)
FX 4: SQ FX - Delay 2 (with a bit of send to 1 or 2)
Aux / Mix 1: iPad input 1 (via UMC404 to Drambo for FX)
Aux / Mix 2: iPad input 2
Aux / Mix 3: iPad input 3
Aux / Mix 4: iPad input 4
Aux / Mix 5 (stereo): Kaoss Pad 3 inputs
Aux / Mix 6 (stereo): Akai Force inputs
Aux / Mix 7 (stereo): Mix minus for broadcasting
Aux / Mix 8 (stereo): Monitors
I use the Main Stereo mix as my broadcast feed / main mix for stereo recording of a performance, which I can record whilst also capturing all the individual channels dry, and the 4 SQ FX returns as stereo stems to my DAW (Cubase or Ableton).
So if I want to send to either built in or external effects I choose the aux/mix using the buttons on the right edge (like on the QU) which puts ‘sends on faders’ for that mix.
My sends are setup post-fader for those effects that I (hardly) ever want 100% wet like reverb and delay.
The Kaoss Pad and Force sends they are setup pre-fader so that if I want 100% wet (e.g to filter or otherwise mangle all my drum channels) I can send all those channels to the target using ‘sends on faders’ then lower the channel level faders to zero so I don’t hear the dry signal.
Audio goes to KP3 or Force and I bring their outputs back into channels on the SQ for monitoring the fully wet signal from them. This does introduce some milliseconds of delay due to the AD/DA roundtrips.
You might ask why I don’t instead use a patchbay and simply patch my sources into the FX units.
That way would remove a AD/DA round-trip or two from the signal path and reduce the latency (which is only 0.7ms max per trip through the SQ so I can deal with that, the iPad and Force latency is more significant though), but if I did that I couldn’t do the following:
- Still capture each separate channel to DAW as an unprocessed stem at the same time as the fully wet sub mixes coming back from KP3 or Force.
- Send multiple sources to the same ‘insert’ effect (KP3 as filter etc)
I do use a patchbay but more often it’ll just be for bringing in lesser used external sources to the mixer that don’t fit into the 23 available analogue inputs.
A main drawback with using a digital mixer (vs analogue one with all controls for all channels available all the time) is that you cannot usually control different sends on different channels at the same time.
I am hoping to find time to setup an external midi controller mapped to all the sends so I have a big field of pots with LED rings (for parameter feedback) that show at least 16 x 4 sends (for the SQ FX) available without needing the change to ‘sends on faders’ on the SQ. Not sure what product I’ll use though… BCR2000 are cheap and would do it but they are massive. Faderfox has one with lots of pots but not LED feedback which is kinda essential so it reflects any changes I make to the sends on the SQ cos I know I’ll get ‘into’ it whilst performing, forget I’ve got my new pot field and use the SQ sends on faders at the same time anyway so they need to update each other.
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Thank you for such a simple and well thought out reply. Really spoke to the slow learner in me
This was more or less my take in setting up the Qu but things kept feeling overly convoluted and messy for some reason.
I liked the idea of using the mix sends as a sort of patch bay that could combine multiple signals as you mentioned… though I often had trouble gain matching everything going in and out without adding artifacts. More a me problem than anything.
Regardless, today I actually sold my Qu-32 to a church to fund a Push 3. Decided to Pare-down to that with an Adat IO and see if I can make something work for me there! Definitely a lot of table real estate has been gained.
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On the SQ, you might find it useful to set up a separate customized control layer — you can absolutely customize it so you get your sends to an effect next to the returns. You can’t necessarily get everything on the same layer (unless you’ve got a big board or only a few sources), but it is possibly. For an external controller, you might look at the Midifighter Twister — it’s nice and compact and gives you visual feedback on all the knobs. It can do 6 layers of the 16 knobs. That said, if you really want 64 values all showing all the time, that’ll get a bit pricey. I’m not aware of anything that will do feedback that’s more compact or notably cheaper, though.
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An alternative if you do not need physical knobs or faders are the A&H Ipad apps, which allow controlling all aspects of the Qu (and probably also SQ) mixers. Their interface can be personalized to a reasonable extent, they indicate the state of parameters, and also reflect all changes made directly on the mixer. (And a 2nd hand Ipad + wifi router is not necessarily more expensive than a good Midi controller.)
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I’m sure this is an amateur question but I figured it may be worth asking for next time I’m back in this situation.
If I set mu main inputs at unity and got my signal running at a good level I would often find that sending that signal pre fader through my mix out at a much lower volume and back into a return at a much lower volume would still be too loud. I never understood this behaviour.
Thanks for the suggestions @osaka and @ccr! But yes I’ve got too many sources and sends, and too few channels (SQ-5) to make it work on the SQ as I’d like even with using custom control layers.
And yes, @ccr the iPad app is another “way in” and I’ve got an iPad and router setup (I do live engineering gigs solo with the SQ too so handy for setting monitors).
I don’t think either of these solutions will give me access to 16 channels x 4 sends at the same time though.
I’ve got some BCR2000s already, and they would be perfect except they are massive (plus I’m kinda using them for other things and have only one spare). If Behringer releases the BCR32 then that’s clearly gonna be the best hardware solution I’m aware of.
Looked at the Faderfox EC4 (elegant and small but expensive and too few encoders, and I’d prefer LED rings to a screen/scribble strip) and PC12 (not LED and also expensive, BUT has snapshots which could be very cool). Midi Fighter Twister is also cool but it’s expensive and I’d need 2 to get to the same place I can get to with one BCR2000.
I’m probably going to end up using Midi Designer pro on the iPad but that knocks the iPad out of other tasks. Cheapest, most customisable option. It’s just not the same as having some real pots. BUT it will do snapshots which is a great idea! I could have a load of pre-configured FX send combinations and slam between them for delay and reverb throws across multiple channels with a single button press! Now that’s exciting me as a possibility…
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Not an amateur question at all - gain staging / structure is tricky and the process can be confusing on digital mixers in particular.
Your signal flow for sends is probably something like this, with gain adjustments possible at every point in the chain:
Input Gain -> Channel Trim -> Channel Insert FX input gain / output level settings (if present) -> Channel Level (if send is post-fader) -> Channel Send to Mix Amount -> Mix Trim -> Mix Insert FX input gain / output level settings (if present) -> Mix Level -> External Hardware input gain / output level settings -> Return Input Gain -> Return Channel Trim - Return Channel Insert FX input gain / output level settings (if present) -> Return Channel Level.
Phew. Complex signal path! So there are LOTS of places your signal could be too hot or not hot enough.
This is what the signal generator on a mixer is for - set it to 0dB and run that pure sine tone through your signal chain and adjust the gains/levels as you go to ensure no clipping and a level of 0dB at every point you can measure it. Then you know you’ve got no cut or boost to the level happening.
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Great explanation and advice. I will surely return to this if/when I buy a digital mixer again.
Matching levels with the signal generator seems like a great way to match levels and if I’m running on a default scene I imagine I may only need to do it once to get an accurate reading of where fader positions should be when using a number of send FX.
Meanwhile I will use the same tip set up my sends and returns on on the Push 3 ADAT outs!
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Which adat expander will you hook up to push 3.
Does anyone have tipps for the qu pac - how to achieve maximum loudness? I.e. -8db LUFs with the internal compressor /limiter? Is that possible in your opinion? What is your expierience here?
Have you tried the A&H Qu forum? In my experience, people there are very responsive.