Should also be possible to cv modulate (A4/AK) hotknob patches via the expression pedal input…never tried, though.
Sequencing hotknob parameter macros from A4/AK sounds pretty crazy^^
Btw, Octatracks 10 midi cc per track are perfect for the 10 parameters on the H9.
I actually thought about getting the ZOIA first, but went with the H9 instead.
I actually enjoy endlessly tweaking stuff, making my own fx and fx chains and stuff, but in the end I didn’t wanna spend more time endlessly tweaking stuff so…
One thing I really like about Eventide fx is, they tend to not layer on top of a signal - like some effects appear to do - pretty much the opposite, they kind of weave in a sound…if that makes any sense^^
Anyways, I’m really impressed with the H9.
The H9 Control software works really well on IOS, Android and Windows.
H9 Control on Windows (probaply on Mac, too) even lets you route midi from any source connected to your computer via usb to the H9, and it works really well.
Pretty nifty.
Editing on the H9 also works surprisingly well.
Didn’t expect it to be much fun actually…
I’m juggling the same balls here. To get a Zoia or H9…?
They both look awesome… but I’m interested in programming effect changes from my Octatrack or my A4. I hear that allot of people are enjoying exactly that on the H9, but anyone have experience with the Zoia in that regard?
Of course the Zoia is as capable in this regard as the H9. But the deciding question should be:
Do you want to use prebuild effects only (H9) or do you want to build your own effects?
While you can get tons of pre-made patches for the Zoia from other users in essence the Zoia is all about building your own effects …
Even using pre-made patches with the Zoia will require that you do some digging around where and what controls are available (there are no standards) and/or to modify these patches to your liking.
I have both and intend to keep both. Quick pros and cons:
H9 Max: Pros: Has all the algorithms from all the 'factor pedals, as well as the H9 exclusives (eg. Crushstation, Ultratap, Resonator). Pitch shifting sounds a little cleaner. Even the most massive sounding reverb algos include one or two additional FX such as modulation or even distortion. A bit more foolproof for live usage as the X/Y/Z buttons default to top 3 most likely to use FX parameters and there’s an Expert Mode for access to all 10 parameters. Cons: Only one algorithm loaded at a time, although many algos include up to 3 FX. Effects order/routing is pretty much fixed for most algorithms
Zoia: Pros: It’s a modular in a box so sound design is very open-ended. The Patchstorage site has a dizzying selection of creative, unusual patches. Sound quality generally competes with Eventide. Cons: You have to memorize where the vital parameters are if you’re going to play a show with a patch. Lets say you want to tweak the modulation rate in the middle of a song. You forgot where it was in the patch so you tap the wrong square. Oops! This is where H9 has the upper hand - every patch has the top 3 parameters assigned to the X Y Z buttons in quick-edit mode, and you also have Expert Mode which lets you get to all 10. Also, you have to watch your CPU usage if you go overboard with your patch. The Ghostverb module is particularly expensive, although there are many excellent reverb patches that do not use it.
Both H9 and Zoia have fairly complete MIDI implementations but you will probably have to set up MIDI CC mappings and the like for each individual patch on the Zoia if you want to sequence FX param changes from Octatrack.
The Zoia concept is amazing and if the sound is comparable then I’ll go for the Zoia for sure. But I’m just a bit worried about if the big reverbs and the shimmer will be as good as on the H9. I’m planning to use this mostly for ambient music, so the reverb has to be super good. I’ve found one demo on youtube showcasing the ghostverb (I think it was called) on the Zoia, it sounded pretty clean and nice, but it’s hard to say from just one demo.
Since you have them both, it would be nice to hear your take on that. How would you say that they compare on this part?
If you’re after reverbs, the H9 is difficult to beat!
In case it was not clear yet, not all the reverb algorithms are included with the basic H9 ( i.e. in case you opt for a core or harmonizer H9). You can add them, but you’d have to pay for them.
The H9 algorithms are amazing, and exactly the same as the Space pedal.
Then, as discussed, both Zoia and H9 are good choices and will make you happy. H9 is easy out of the box, Zoia requires more work in creating your fx.
I’ve personally found Eventide reverbs too claustrophobia and dense. Too dark for the type of ambient I like to make. I had an Empress reverb for a while and I found it amazing and alive/organic. I had to sell it though unfortunately. But now I use a TC Electronic M3000 and it’s incredible for realistic/natural verbs that aren’t gimmicky or recognisable but you can still do massive, long and deep reverbs. Plus it’s a dual engine machine too. So you can have 2 different reverbs series or parallel, or even 2 separate mono reverbs.
That’s super interesting. Especially since I sometimes don’t like it when I can “hear” the reverb, when it’s not natural. And these can be had for $600 used. I’ll definitely look into those.
I’ve found some reverb sounds for Zoia that I personally thought were nice and massive without imitating the Eventide thing, and did not require the power-hungry Ghostverb module. Search the Patchstorage site for reverb patches and see if you can find any demos you like there: https://patchstorage.com/platform/ZOIA/
Seems like the H9 would be the safer choice for you. Can’t go wrong either way.
One advantage of having both, beside the obviously wider palette of sounds, is being able to set up Zoia as a MIDI master then have it control H9. I have yet to explore that rabbit hole though.
Christopher HM Jacques is a Zoia genius. He keeps finding more and more ways to extract cool sounds from Zoia. The 2nd half of this video showcases his latest reverb patch. It is built on the plate reverb module, with the usual CHM Jacques secret sauce on top.
One possible caveat: I think Christopher is recording audio from some speaker in the room rather than Zoia direct.
People are sleeping on these boxes for the shiny new things. The modern pedals are great boxes but if you consider that a new M3000 still sells for over a grand I think it’s worth seeing what you can get at a comparable price for a used unit.
I’m still digging through all the patches Hainbach generously contributed. This video showcases several of them, including a patch modified by Jogging House for his OP-1 ambient album.
One possible caveat: I think Christopher is recording audio from some speaker in the room rather than Zoia direct.
Yup. I used to record to soundcard, but then people kept saying “How do you use the patches?” So I started making demos differently and talking about how the controls work. I’d love to mix soundcard and live audio, but it just ends up being a huge editing chore for someone who has only a basic understanding of how to make videos on a phone. But those speakers in the room are going into an old iPhone, so I don’t know as the approach really improves the audio quality (though it certainly does change it).
To the original poster’s question:
I hate the AD/DAs on the H9 (have an H9 Max–and if you’re going this route, go Max–but it mostly sits on my shelf. Everything sounds very, very sterile to me that goes through; lots of cool algorithms, and you can definitely get good sounds out of it, but, I generally use it as a last resort, if it does something I can’t get anywhere else… but again, as many other posters have proved, ears hear the same thing differently, and that’s never more true than when it comes to reverb, in my experience).
I don’t know as it compares to ZOIA very well. I mean, the effects algorithms are one thing (and subjective and etc.–they’re good; we honestly live in an age of pretty great effects and even if the H9 isn’t my favorite, if I were forced to use it solely, I would not consider myself in a poor position). But it’s an entirely different process. H9 is an effects box; ZOIA is an environment. I love ZOIA, but you have to kind of love ZOIA to get the most out of it. It can do lots of cool stuff, but it’s a lot more work (and time) than an H9.
I don’t think the Plethora exists yet (unless it got released in the last couple of weeks), but it certainly does look promising. Another contender I’d suggest considering is a Helix Stomp. They sound pretty good; Line6 keeps adding effects; and it allows you a lot of liberty in creating novel combinations. The Poly Digit/Beebo (you can switch the firmware, as I understand it) is another one to check out.
I really must say that after watching Heinbachs video, and checking out sound-demos of the patches available at https://patchstorage.com/platform/ZOIA/ , that I’m totally sold on this concept! And to my ears the reverb quality is at least good enough!
So Zoia it is!
So now the question is whether I should wait for the new version of Zoia with all the CV ins and outs… or settle for the pedal version
I’m interested in the Zoia since it’s first previews and was actually about to order one just about the day of the Euroburo announcement. Headphones out, 4x CV ins/out and (more) buttons instead of the stomp switches was an INSTA-wait for me (I would never stomp at that thing).
I don’t think it’s “settling.” It’s really a question about what fits your setup better. Do you use CV? If so, do you use it in a limited capacity or do you have a eurorack system?
The pedal form supports one channel of CV in/out, which might be enough for someone who has a semi-modular synth they want to add a little flair to or some other pedals with CV in/out to get experimental with. (It does bonkers stuff with MIDI, though.)
If you’ve got a lot of modular gear, those CV ports are great and probably worth the wait (forget audio, for a moment – because ZOIA’s a tremendous CV processor/generator; you also get entirely configurable MIDI-to-CV and CV-to-MIDI conversion). But it will also be pricier; they haven’t settled on a price, but the number that is mentioned most often is $650.
if you looking for a reverb, why not going just Eventide Space instead of H9 Max? It´s one knob per function and for me, yes the reverbs are really really good when it comes to wide ambient spaces. I never used a plugin for wide spaces again. The modecho reverb algo comes with modulation chorus / flanger and a 3. and also a delay with tone control and feedback. And not mention the allmighty shimmer reverb of the Space. Such a lush reverb! Sometimes i just use this without the pitching / shimmer.
