EQ between your synth and DT when sampling?

Elektron Gear Digitakt
#1

I’'ve been sampling my Prologue recently, mostly loops like chord progressions and basslines. And I’m getting muddy results sometimes. I considered sampling to the computer, EQing and then transfering the samples to the DT, but then what’s the point of the DT being a sampler, right?

How do you people do it? Do you recommend having for example an EQ pedal between the Prologue and the DT when sampling?

It would be very nice to have the option to apply EQ as part of the sampling workflow. I know the DT is pretty much running at full capacity and there’s no much room for real-time EQ per track, but it would be totally possible to apply EQ after sampling and before trimming (and doesn’t have to be realtime). Also would be nice to see the spectrum.

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#2

I really wish there was a shelving filter like the DN!

I often resample internally using a bit of HPF to shave off some lows if needed.

I use a Fostex MN-15 (light compression/character) and Shallow Water (wobbly tape effects, chorus, phaser) between my synths and DT sampling. I also use the AH for that role as well but not often.

I’ve always thought if the patch timbre is just right, you don’t need much to get it all to fit. It’s when you’re trying to smash patches that contrast together that makes problems.

#3

Isn’t it due to the fact DT sample in mono ? If your Prologue ouput in true stereo (pan or FX), you’re probably having frequencies masked when summed to mono - which could sound muddy.

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#4

Yes, it wold be great to have a shelving filter for sampling at least (as apparently it is not possible one for each track).
I’ll try resampling with some HPF as you do. And as you say, getting the timbre right to start with might make the most difference.

#5

I don’t think it’s that, I’m sampling the mono out (L) from the Prologue, not mixing the stereo channels.

#6

Sample to your computer and A/B the results?

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#7

All my hardware comes into AUM on an iPad on discrete channels for fxs, busing/mixing, and recording (as much as possible, at least…4 stereo tracks for the Digitone Keys really makes me wish I had 8 mono outputs on the Digitakt and/or that over bridge worked via iOS…); on my Digitakt input channel I have a send that goes to my resampling channel with EQ/Saturation/etc, and that (either summed to mono or one channel or the other) gets sent back into the 2nd Digitakt input (the other either is fed by a different channel or other hardware/fx/whatever); when I need to tweak a sample in the DT I bus it through that send, monitor where I normally do in AUM, and with that input’s monitoring off, snag the effected version and use that, keeping or deleting the original as necessary.

Personally, I often have to avoid even this method since I sample a lot of original loops from various iPad Apps to slice and resequence on the Takt, and live resampling doesn’t work to get precise 16 or 64 beat long recordings which is required for my auto-slicing template sequences to work properly. For that, I resample in AUM, trim in AudioShare, Airdrop to my iMac, just to transfer the new loop as data to the Digitakt via USB, forcing me to slave it via 5pin to the Digitone, which leaves slaving the iPad via Digitone’s USB. It’s a digital birds nest and while it only takes a minute, it’s pretty annoying considering literally the only music related thing I use my desktop for these days is to transfer loops from my iPad through the air to the Digitakt through a cable. I really wish an iOS app (that worked, there is one abandoned one on the App Store) supported transferring files to the Digitakt. Not to mention core audio functionality.

But yeah, pretty much gotta either sculpt through something when you sample, or resample it sculpted via round trip, or transfer/record to elsewhere for processing and still resample or transfer it yet again. That’s why I like the instant FX loop option if you’ve got a send or hardware processor available to dedicate to the task. If you’re good with destructively sculpting things ahead of time and know what it needs, far easier to just put it inline before it hits the Takt’s inputs. Luckily for me, my Digitakt’s always already wired into an output of the iPad since everything goes through or comes from there anyway as it’s my mixer/recorder.

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#8

@dreamsaremaps thanks a lot for all the details! I’ve been thinking about getting an ipad for this, great to see how well it works for you.

#9

Be certain your audio interface for your future iPad either has memory for and retains its previous settings last applied on the desktop, has hardware switching for any options you may need, or supports a dedicated iOS app for setup. I’m currently stuck using my Audient iD14 after hot swapping it while plugged into DC so it doesn’t reset to its default when connected to the iPad. Sadly it has no preset capabilities and while it is class compliant and functions on iOS, things like assigning outputs/monitoring is lost whenever powered down. Meaning I can’t take this setup away from a desktop/laptop or I lose the ability to use my ADAT input for my Digitone Keys. Ugh. I’m currently researching other options. I believe Presonus has an iOS dashboard. I thought Focusrite did, but it’s simply an iOS remote for their desktop app. The Audient id44 apparently retains settings so I’m looking at that (2 in/2 out adat in addition to the analog I/o…hopefully that’ll be enough??) But in any case, aside from that caveat that requires some homework, I absolutely love iOS for this stuff. Sample creation, dirt cheap high quality plugins, mobile editing, etc. For a few hundred bucks it does the job incredibly well, and, well…doubles as an iPad for all sorts of other uses. Tonebooster’s $6.99 audio unit effects are an insane value, just to name one collection. Can’t beat that.

Ruismaker Noir is like a DFAM on Acid, and I dunno…$10?

#10

Muddiness comes from clashing frequencies in the bass, so to save having a computer involved in the purity of DT sampling, why not just resample internally with a high pass filter for anything that doesn’t need those clashing subby frequencies? It will clean up your mix beautifully :+1:

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#11

Sure, if all you’ve gotta do is roll off the bass and don’t need a perfectly timed loop, there’s no reason not to. I wish I could ‘render’ a loop resampled internally so the length stays precisely the same and doesn’t screw up my trigs. But sometimes it takes more than a HP to get everything to sit, and I rather like having an arsenal of effects ready to resample with. Depends on what all you’re combining and what the source sound was like, don’t you think?

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#12

I have my home set up all running through a mixer then out from my mixer goes back into my Digitakt another separate out goes to speakers. Digitakt usb audio goes to multitrack recorder on the computer. Mixer has parametric eq so I can boost and cut what ever pretty easily. Any sound I make at any time is always ready to be sampled into the DT.

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#13

Sure. I hear you. So maybe you’re hankering after an OT that can do everything you want and more, or otherwise thinking of getting a nice guitar pedal that can do all the EQing and maybe some nice (subtle) distortion? Both would work.

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#14

True, highpassing and shelving are very different! You can somewhat DIY that by having multiple instances of the sample running at the same time with different filter settings and volume. It’s a bit cumbersome though hah. I prefer to do it on the computer, because it can get more precise – sometimes even with an accompanying “mix loop” that has everything but the treated sample.

#15

I just bought a digitone keys and digitakt after being in the box (aside from guitars/bass/pedals I’ll always keep around) since, ugh, 2001 maybe?) But indeed, I was made aware that the octatrack does so damn much and it’s on my potential future list, but at the moment I’ve got more then I can utilize at any one time while I get my performance chops back in step. But between all the midi controllers and iOS AUv3s and the 12 additional midi tracks I’ve got available combined with all the routing and CC control of a DAW, I’m gonna see how far I can get before throwing an Octatrack into the mix. The largest point of failure currently on iOS (which just in the past weeks has begun finally filling out) was a competent and playable drum sampler; hence the digitakt. So now, I’ve got all these pieces that all had various plugins on them and I’m breaking them down and reconstructing them trig by trig in the digitakt for playability. But I’m used to each channel having an EQ, filter, etc; so often once they’re in the DT and playing along with each other, that’s when all of a sudden I realize everything’s all mids in the partially reconstructed/partially new breakdown, and it’s easy enough to bounce the loop down again after some tweaks. Once things are settled in the DT, I’m good to go; and as I do all this, I’ll be building up treated loops and one shots that won’t require so much bullshit once I’m simply building things up on the boxes from scratch.

Then again, the fact that the Octatrack has a cross fader was enough to almost get me to buy one, so…I probably will haha. The digitone is lucky it sounds so good, that’s an octa right there!

(…sorry for hijackkng your thread, @lucianon…too much coffee today.)

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#16

Thanks for everyone’s input!

I do use a computer to prepare some samples, and doesn’t bother me at all for generic samples that are not yet part of a specific track. But for some reason when I’m composing a particular song, I like to sample to the DT directly and leave the computer out.

Yesterday I did some more tests. It turns out resampling with HPF does help a lot in some situations, and resampling is cool and I think I should do it more often and not only for removing the low end. Also, found out that turning on the “low cut” switch on the Prologue’s filter section can make a big difference :slight_smile:

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#17

@JunkRunner I found one of these locally, wondering how the compressor actually relates to the 4+1 tracks.
How do you connect it up for your setup? What does the compressor apply to?

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#18

My Digitakt/Octatrack’s sampling inputs come from my mixer’s fx send, so I have access to gain control, 3 band EQ and a filter.

Edit: Oh wait this is an old thread - you folks must have been happy with the base width filter update! :raised_hands:

#19

And the 5 parametric EQ’s which were added in 1.30 (and fixed in 1.30B), resampling FTW! :slight_smile:

#20

…apart from ending always up with normalized mono in the dt, what u hear is what u catch and get…

it’s pretty straight forward…so if u experience vast different results between source material and the final sample snippit, only reason can be very low signal input in first place…

gainstaging is always essential key for all audio quality…
so make it a habit to always quickcheck the sampling input level before u hit record…
if u hear a low level signal u can always run into surprises once u hear it loud…

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