Elektron machines stifling my creativity !?

Rael · 2015-03-12T17:55:53.000Z

Hi
Ive been working with elektron machines since getting the octatrack in 2011
now my set up is 100% elektron, OT AR and AK,

allthough i find these machines brilliant creative tools…

…Ive come to find the awkwardness of moving songs/loops/ideas between projects an enormous stumbling block

For example i mostly work inside a live project, which is mostly full, but i darent start a new song in a new project, because it’ll be a headache to integrate it into the live set up i i would want to do so at a later date

I’ve recently considered going with one project per song, though this would mean silences and potential volume issues when playing live

How do you folks deal with these issues?

Cheers

alfred · 2015-03-12T19:55:16.000Z

I totally hear you. Sometimes I just want to have some fun doing something from scratch not knowing what project it might end up in. Or I want to work on something and let it develop in any direction where it maybe doesn’t work inside that project anymore.

Many times only the thought of how painful it will be to move ideas to another project weakens me so much that I don’t even bother trying to spontaneously create something. It really shouldn’t be that way.

I really wish Elektron would come up with a solution for this.

dubathonic · 2015-03-12T20:24:29.000Z

Agreed. It’s a perennial issue and one that a great number of users would like to see resolved. IMHO I’d prefer a solution to this over any feature addition or OS update.

For the OT, Rusty is working on a solution for PC owners, and beta testing is happening now afaik. There’s also a [url=“http://www.elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28&func=view&catid=9&id=159791”]method you can use right now to copy files from one project to another. Seems to work if you are meticulous with your details.

I don’t use the AR or AK yet, but I’m happy it’s not nearly as much of a chore to do this on MD or MnM. A few minutes with C6 and I’m in good shape moving data between snapshots. Getting organized and backing up data are things I’ve got used to making time for during gig prep.

AdamJay · 2015-03-12T20:58:58.000Z

It depends on the needs of your own music, really.

For me, a “song” played back live is me jamming on 4 patterns per Elektron machine with lots of realtime tweaking and variations, and loads of kit/sound/pattern reloads to bring things back around. My kits are titled based on the patterns used i.e. Kit 1 = A1-A4, Kit 3 = A9-A12
This gives me 32 live “songs” , and 32 kits per Project (AR & A4).

But I make techno, so it works for me. I would rarely need to switch between Projects but will eventually as I make more and more material for live performance with Elektrons.

So I’ve started to engineer a solution for the future, and I’ve come to the conclusion of having an Elektron box with a track dedicated for bridging material while another box loads a fresh project.
For instance, 1 track on the Analog Four that’s a fairly interesting drum loop that I can go crazy on while the Analog Rytm loads a fresh project. Fortunately, any Elektron box will do the job thanks to sound/parameter locks. To get them all back in sync, I can do a big FX tail wash / dubbed out delay feedback thing with the seqs all stopped.

Rusty · 2015-03-12T21:22:21.000Z

I’d say if you have a gig coming up in the very near future, then make sure that it is included in your ‘Live’ project.

If not, then just be free like a naked hippie on LSD running through a field.

Things will be ok.

alfred · 2015-03-12T21:40:58.000Z

""Rusty"":

I’d say if you have a gig coming up in the very near future, then make sure that it is included in your ‘Live’ project.

If not, then just be free like a naked hippie on LSD running through a field.

Things will be ok.

yeah exactly…
that’s what I thought when I first got my A4 and I made the stupid mistake of placing new patterns and kits right after the example ones into the same project. then finding out about the data structure too late I had to go through moving everything around. never again.
maybe this works for you. good for you, but it definitely don’t work for everyone.
i hope the OB editor will bring some simple drag and drop solution for this.

bluewolfse7en · 2015-03-12T21:44:53.000Z

[quote=“” Rusty""]
I’d say if you have a gig coming up in the very near future, then make sure that it is included in your ‘Live’ project.

If not, then just be free like a naked hippie on LSD running through a field.

Things will be ok.
[/quote]

Best advice ever

Rusty · 2015-03-12T21:55:34.000Z

[quote=“” dubathonic""]
For the OT, Rusty is working on a solution for PC owners, and beta testing is happening now afaik.
[/quote]

OctaEdit is currently in Beta testing at the moment with a few people…

Those links are old.

Main thread is here: OctaEdit - Octatrack Software Editor

Beta testing thread is here: OctaEdit - Beta Testing

Rusty · 2015-03-12T21:56:56.000Z

""alfred"":

maybe this works for you. good for you, but it definitely don’t work for everyone.

Theres a deeper meaning in there then the obvious answer…

benbin · 2015-03-12T22:26:47.000Z

""Rusty"":

I’d say if you have a gig coming up in the very near future, then make sure that it is included in your ‘Live’ project.

If not, then just be free like a naked hippie on LSD running through a field.

Things will be ok.

Golden advice from great sage equal of heaven.

alfred · 2015-03-12T22:57:19.000Z

""AdamJay"":

It depends on the needs of your own music, really.

yes it does. i play with different musicians, in different projects with different hardware setups. I use a lot of patterns for each track and i need to be able to move stuff around. for other people i guess it might be fine the way it is if they play for themselves and use no other hardware.

alfred · 2015-03-12T23:43:04.000Z

""Baddcr"":

I think it comes down to repeatability, or unrepeatability, are you creating songs that you play over and over again, or simply riding the waves of inspiration?

Probably something of both perhaps?

I can and do save stuff, some of it even makes some kind of coherent sense, but a lot of the time I just play… I don’t really care about saving it or being able to do it again.

If I play out, only ever 10-20 minute sets, on, it’s a day in preparation and just a live jam that I’ve rehearsed a dozen times or something.

So, everything is fine for me, but I can see how if you were doing more than this it would take a lot of work. As mentioned, more than one machine is a big help here!

makes sense, but me for example i totally don’t work like that. i don’t jam out on my A4 and i rarely play solo. i can see a lot of potential in the elektron boxes for this kind of approach, but i play more in a band context with very processed guitar and vocals. I switch patterns on my FCB1010 and occasionally move an expression pedal but i don’t really put my hands on it for playing so I need lots of patterns. the sequencing has to be very structured for me to give me a backbone for songs. for the unpredictability i have other stuff going on than the A4.

so yes, i totally see what you are saying. but on the other hand even my old MPC has a file system to easily move stuff around. it can’t be so hard to implement and in the end everyone would benefit.

Rusty · 2015-03-13T00:44:40.000Z

""alfred"":

[quote=“AdamJay”]It depends on the needs of your own music, really.

yes it does. i play with different musicians, in different projects with different hardware setups. I use a lot of patterns for each track and i need to be able to move stuff around. for other people i guess it might be fine the way it is if they play for themselves and use no other hardware. [/quote]
Tell me what exactly you want, and I’ll tell you if I can make it happen.

NRain · 2015-03-13T05:14:16.000Z

Yes this is a real creativity conundrum for me also. I find myself mostly reusing the same old projects and deleting stuff to make a new live set that includes existing material instead of pulling my hair out trying to swap banks / patterns etc over to new projects. It is a real downer looking at a bunch of bits and pieces spread across multiple projects that would take ridiculous amounts of planning and time to merge together…

I am very hopeful Rusty’s editor will make the process of moving OT banks between projects somewhat more bearable, and also hopeful that Overbridge will help in this regard for the analog series.

Rusty · 2015-03-13T06:14:52.000Z

""NRain"":

I am very hopeful Rusty’s editor will make the process of moving OT banks between projects somewhat more bearable

How are you finding that then?

zfigz · 2015-03-13T13:02:28.000Z

""dubathonic"":

…but I’m happy it’s not nearly as much of a chore to do this on MD or MnM. A few minutes with C6 and I’m in good shape moving data between snapshots.

Is it fairly easy to move songs and/or patterns from one snapshot to another?

I have loads of stuff backed up from my old mnm mkii (w/o +drive) on my computer that I’d like to put into my new mnm mkii +drive.

dubathonic · 2015-03-13T15:00:40.000Z

""zfigz"":

[quote=“dubathonic”]…but I’m happy it’s not nearly as much of a chore to do this on MD or MnM. A few minutes with C6 and I’m in good shape moving data between snapshots.

Is it fairly easy to move songs and/or patterns from one snapshot to another?

I have loads of stuff backed up from my old mnm mkii (w/o +drive) on my computer that I’d like to put into my new mnm mkii +drive.[/quote]
Very easy. I do it all the time. Last night I was getting my act together and it took me all of 10 minutes to transfer all the data I needed on both instruments from my completely disorganized scratch snapshots to the ones I’m using at the gig.

zfigz · 2015-03-13T17:19:53.000Z

""dubathonic"":

[quote=“zfigz”][quote=“dubathonic”]…but I’m happy it’s not nearly as much of a chore to do this on MD or MnM. A few minutes with C6 and I’m in good shape moving data between snapshots.

Is it fairly easy to move songs and/or patterns from one snapshot to another?

I have loads of stuff backed up from my old mnm mkii (w/o +drive) on my computer that I’d like to put into my new mnm mkii +drive.[/quote]
Very easy. I do it all the time. Last night I was getting my act together and it took me all of 10 minutes to transfer all the data I needed on both instruments from my completely disorganized scratch snapshots to the ones I’m using at the gig. [/quote]
I think it’s just a lil’ intimidating in that I need to pick/choose what I need to backup via the send/receive window on the mnm. I’ll mess about this weekend and see if I can consolidate some old projects into one snapshot to play.

bauer · 2015-03-19T12:15:58.000Z

i had/have exactly the same issues as the OP - very frustrating, and i spent way too long copying/pasting/C6ing bits and pieces around between projects to build a live set.

in the end, i bought another OT and used that for looping/fx duties while i changed projects on the other boxes.

not quite as smooth as having everything in one project, and an expensive solution, but wow - it made it so much easier to build a live set, and meant that i could swap tracks in and out on a whim, without the pain of having to wrangle and remember what was doing what in the one-for-all liveset.

bauer · 2015-03-20T10:17:55.000Z

[quote=““BaddcrShhhh… I’m battling with wanting a second OT & this isn’t helping””]

Seriously, I’m glad to hear this is working for you, I really do hope to join you in the 2OT club one day!!!
[/quote]

the only issue is having to change projects on all the other boxes with the transition loop is playing - takes a while even if you have everything organised carefully. danger of the loop getting a bit boring.
i listened back to a previous live set last night which had everything in one project. i think the transitions sounded smoother/faster/better

i reckon i’ll end up doing a hybrid - keep the projects separate on the MD/A4/other kit, and wrangle the OT patterns/projects into one ‘master’ project for ease of transition. maybe

EDIT: changing projects on the ‘master’ OT being the bit that takes the longest.

also worth mentioning that i’m using and ERM Midiclock for master sync, as it has a button to restart downstream devices seamlessly. nice!

EDIT EDIT: and if rusty’s OT management software makes it to OS X, that could be a very good thing for the above…