Elektron etc Vs VSTs - convince me please!

OK so I started with VSts and Ableton, then thought it would be fun to try some hardware. Got an A4. So far I find the workflow much more tedious and I am not finding a noticeable difference with the sound. I read various threads about the sound being ‘thin’ with Vsts etc but is this just snobbery and/or imagination? Even Gary Numan said in a recent interview he just uses VSTs now as he can’t tell the difference. So please tell me, what are the real advantages of hardware over VSTS? Is it that you don’t need to look at a laptop? If so don’t you find looking at the tiny Elektron screen all the time even worse? Is it for Live performance? Personally when I want to lose myself in electronic music i want to focus on perfect, mixed sound and not worship some guy on a stage who puts intervals between each track - that’s what I liked about electronic music in the first place, the death of the coiffured ‘pop god’.
So, can someone please tell me that I just haven’t discovered all the secrets yet, and give me a hint as to what they are? I need inspiration to stop me selling my hardware :slight_smile: Thanks guys :slight_smile:

It’s fun. Plain and simple. Use a real step sequencer versus a software one and youll see

Some people will tell you hardware sound better, some people will tell you software sound better… I don’t really hear the difference.

To me, what sets them appart is that hardware boxes like Elektron are music instruments, while a computer with a DAW is just a tool, and an uninspiring one… You PLAY an instrument, but you USE a tool… but that’s just my opinion, and if you like Ableton, well that’s awesome :slight_smile:

Elektrons are fun to use for me.

Computers are no fun to use for me.

I pay for the fun factor.

Other people might have other opinions (though on an Elektron forum maybe not so often).

It’s a workflow thing mostly. If the computer works better for you, then use the computer.

In terms of sound; real analogue is still slightly better for some kind of… analogue sounds, but recent “component-level” modeling gets very close to the real thing, so unless you’re after a very specific kind of sound then this shouldn’t be a huge concern.

Soft synths sound clean and tame and you kind of feel them in your head…analog is more like a wild animal and you feel it in your chest/gut.

watch this, this guy is a genius and points out some of the downsides of digital (from a sonic perspective)

Allot of these discussions are relics of the past…

If you know what your doing… you can sound great with whatever route you choose.
and you can have lots of fun whatever route you choose…

I think allot of people on this forum just want to tinker with shiny machines and make music, like folk played guitar next to a campfire 200 years ago… not for profit/glory/fame but for the friendships on fora and the fun of doing something.
those are the people who work with computers all day… come home and want to stay away from computers… Those will always swear by hardware… cause the software doesn’t give that experience… not even with a 1000 controllers custom build in your desk.

But, if you really want to rock-out hard… and be one of those people that perform all over the world, and people buy your tshirts and all that crap… the chance that you can escape from computers and editing and keeping up libraries and being able to pull many projects at the same time and blablabla all the crap that comes with that… is very slim to zero… the reason for this is simple… the marjority of my hardware doesn’t do multiple projects lack of diskspace (heh, if it even has a harddisk) or memory space.

Take the octatrack for example… its a beautifull machine… I like it… allot… but how many of you out there want it to have more inputs, more miditracks, more effects, better project-management and all that… Well… u got those troubles with almost any piece of hardware out there… and its just easier to manage/keep in a computer.

so hardware doesn’t sound better and computers will never be instruments.
but most performing people out there who do electronic stuff don’t want an instrument… they want a device that helps them deliver an experience… Sound + lights + video…

thanks for your responses guys. This feeds in to my dilemma as to whether to swap my A4 for an AK. Using the A4 with Ableton Push makes it kind of like a clunky VST…think I need the keys to experience the ‘playing an instrument’ thing. Just don’t want to have to keep stopping to remember the next button combination in order to save my work!

Are you not using the A4 with an external controller keyboard then? I think using Push with anything will make it feel like its a part of Live rather than a unique instrument.
I use a combination of DAW (Ableton) and hardware synths. I write at the synths and record with the computer. I always hated programming soft synths with a mouse, never felt any tactile connection to the instrument. I find working with hardware challenges me to be more creative. When I used to use Reason I wasted so much time just shuffling through thousands of presets rather than making my own, which is way more fun, particularly on hardware.
I think that what you’re really getting with Elektron boxes is a different way of working. Personally, I’ve not found the melodic step sequencers of the A4 and MM as useful as I had hoped for the kind of music I make, and they haven’t been a smooth fit into my workflow, unlike the MD which I love. I don’t think you can buy an Elektron box for its sound alone. The key is figuring out how to use integrate the A4’s sequencer into your workflow.

Yeah good advice, thanks :slight_smile:

The hardware vs software debate kind of makes me think of those in the world who still love to argue over Windows/Macs! There was a time and a place were one was fairly superior than the other (10 years + ago hardware/Macs) but nowadays, all that differentiates between the two is personal preference. In my opinion of course!

I’m still mastering how to use my hybrid set up (laptop, A4, OT, Push, X-Station) but I do have a lot of fun. I would say I am certainly more productive within a computer but that’s just me. Plus, I love tinkering and playing with the Elektron boxes. I know I’m never going to “make it” so it’s all just hobbyist fun for me with a semi serious side project with mates making an albums worth of tracks that we like.

What Elektron gear did have over the software world was it’s sequencer which is a hell of a lot of fun. Push is making inroads to this world though but, of course, thats still a hardware/software combo.

I’m probably just a baw hair away from my ideal set up. If we do get an OT with Overbridge one day then that would probably be me sorted. Still, cant stop GASing over Rytm and the likes!!!

While we can’t say that hardware sound is beter than softwear 's one,
the only way to solve this problem is to respond to a simple question :

What do you prefer ?

Hard or soft workflow, limitation of hard or unlimited sofware capacities, does’nt matter what do people think, just hav fun with producing and being hable to communicate you sensiveness.

the themes like analog/digital or hardware/software are anachronic problems and jurassic way of thinking the material way of produce sounds.

I own a waldorf pulse 2 and soundesign directly in it, own a virus snow and design on its software because of the huge parameters…
I compose Midi+short samples on Octatrack and record everything in a daw with separate tracks…

So this is a combo of analog, numeric, samples, hardware, software : each instruments have its specific sounds quality.

This is personal but what make me choose of not using “only” computer is :

  • I feel “closer” to music with composing in a machine
  • Due to limitations of hardware, i’m using computer to solve specific problems

Elektron change there way of thinking when implementing Overbridge for example and that’s good !

Let’s be honest: you don’t need hardware to make music. There is nothing preventing you from making excellent music with just a laptop and headphones, other than talent and time.

Personally, I find that I can work pretty fast in a DAW to make a song, but I hate trying to channel creativity that way. I’m infinitely more inspired to twist knobs and create sounds using hardware. When I try to do everything in the box, I focus too much on little things, always trying to write a track instead of jamming and exploring, making music with my eyes, not my ears-burdened by too many options instead of finding ways to work around my limitations. At that point, I feel more like I’m working on an Excel spreadsheet, not trying to make art.

Thus, I switched to hardware a few years ago, and went with Elektron because the integration of the sound engine with the sequencer is unparalleled, and gives me enough of the convenience of DAW automation that I can create sounds that move, and sounds that I never would have discovered ITB. I’ve easily become 10x the electronic musician I was before as a result of making the switch to OTB and Elektron. That said, I’ll never leave the computer entirely, as things like arrangement, mixing, and mastering are all made easier when working visually, IMO.

If you find it clashes with your workflow, then maybe it is best for YOU to do everything in software, and there is nothing wrong with that. I’d suggest that you familiarize yourself with the A4 manual and try sitting on the couch and making a few tracks with just that before you rule it out, but if you give it a fair shake and it isn’t for you, go for what works, because the end result is what matters.

Hardware SOOOOOOoooo sounds better

Actually, I’m pretty sure that on a limited budget, a software solution probably sounds better. If you have 50k or more, then a hardware setup is gonna sound massive, but if you have a typical budget of, say, 5k€ max, making release quality music is difficult.

Of course you can spend the whole 5k on a Minimoog and it’s gonna sound better than a software monosynth, but how are you gonna make whole records with it?

:-1: -8va
it’s not about the sound! it’s about the haptic! you push, press, slide, tweak and you feel real materials with your hands!!
sound… co’on man! i bet you don’t hear the differnce between 192k and 384k of a mp3 because we all don’t hear it!!! thats the nature of the human ear… and there have been a lot of experiments on it.
but if you believe and feel, you know, thats something different. perhaps the name is soundism :slight_smile:

Completely agree with you Accent! Nice post.

Sheeeez Louise. I can totally hear the difference - you guys will be telling me you can’t tell the difference between vinyl cut from CDs and vinyl cut from 24bit WAVs next…Good monitors make it easier to tell the difference but even on shit ones, you CAN tell. Same with hardware synths and signal processors. They just sound better and are cool