Yeah I am saying I actually do not want to use something where I have to flip pages or at least where I can minimize it and just access controls directly (ideally). What I am saying is imagine an analog rytm controller that was laid out like the cycles or samples in that all the paramaters were knobs with no page flipping or accessing/switching menus, etc. that would improve the workflow. So there would be like 60-80 knobs for the paramaters covering each page of the digitone for example, on a device such as rytm or octatrack or four it would be as many knobs for how ever many parameters that were on that device…theres already about that many knobs/buttons on cycles & samples - so if you double it would easily have enough controls. And then i’d imagine it would be cheaper to build since its just a controller - not a synth - so I feel like they could make a pretty sweet one realistically and it would be helpful for those people looking to prolong the life of their instruments and to have a improved workflow on each of them.
Ah, okay, no, that would not be for me. Having 400-500 knobs on my table wouldn’t help me. On a jam, I maybe change 5-6 Parameters manually per device. For that I would have to locate 15 out of 400 knobs and mess up the jam, if I touch the wrong one. But I might fall out here, I am totally fine with the workflow when creating tunes, because it is very fast on Electron devices.
Money wise its not that easy as you might think. Endless Encoders take up lots of I/O on a microcontroller. Checking for changes either needs tons of Interrupts or “a lot of time” to query and evaluate them all. You can reduce the amount of I/Os (no microcontroller comes with that many) but only my adding time to read them aka Latency. Building a nice Controller with 100 Encoders is a ton of work and hardware to make good. And that’s not it. You need to see what the current value of every encoder is. So you either need a very big Screen, multiple screens (like on the hydra synth or the Maschine) or LED Rings, that again need another set of I/Os or run serial, that adds a lot of latency to the device. If modern microcontrollers lack one thing, its I/Os. Even the big ones won’t come with enough.
Building a digital synth, like the Digitone is, is way cheaper, hardware-wise.
In the manual is explained which parameters the presets control, but you can ofc make your own mappings.
Presets included for A4/OT and Rytm MK1s and Ableton Live.
MX12
Well its thats a matter of personal preference. I am not saying the workflow is slow on elektrons - def not, it just would be improved significantly in my opinion - if you have used a model cycles or samples that is the backdrop or feeling of workflow I am coming from here - I would not have a problem locating the controls and I would likely use a lot more of them to change the sound not just 5-6, that would be really useful. I think others may agree or disagree, but thats also why some like some synths and others don’t. As I say, I think would be super useful, but it by no means is me bashing elektron. I am speaking in ‘an ideal world’ where elektron makes dedicated controllers for their machines for those people who want it - those who don’t wont have to bother - I feel like a majority would want something like this - I guess you’d have to make a poll.
Right. Yeah I figured it must be preset up to the cc values of the mk1 devices found in the back of each manual. the new module does probably look like prob one of the best options though since it was specifically tailored to work well with elektron even though it can be used for other things too…
Musicstore, Session Music and other have them in stock, available in 4-6 weeks at Thomann. Doesn’t seem they’re discontinued, but you could ask Faderfox.
Edit, Faderfox usually clearly labels products as discontinued.
Oh ok great. Thanks, will look into these, seems like its 96 knobs + 12 sliders if you combine both of them (mx12 & pc12) which would cover either the octatrack four or rytm…you know if the knobs light up when you hold a step to show which parameters are locked?
You mean, hold a step on an Elektron and p-locked parameters light up on the knobs on the controller?
For that to work, Elektron boxes would either need to send information on p-locks over midi (which they don’t do) or the Elektron boxes would need to send p-locks to the controllers on their own protocol.
Maybe if Elektron would collab with Faderfox or develop their own controllers…
…if there will ever be another swedish attempt to the low price segment, dedicated controllers with a “naked” sequencer engine and various knobs and buttons to twiddle, that can adress right out of the box all swedish ball park should be THE NEXT PRODUCT RANGE…
a model:control…so to say…yup…i’d be all in for that…
There indeed isn’t a controller that seamlessly integrates with something like the AR. See thread here for many considerations on controllers, parameter feedback, value jumps when switching kits etc:
thanks ill def check it out!
For OT a midi controller with endless rotary encoders (or motor faders like BCF2000 or BCR2000) works great, because OT is the only Elektron machine, that can answer to CC61 and then sends a parameter dump to the controller (Midi in and out have to be connected).
Map a button to send CC61, then after a part or bank change when the values on OT don´t match the values on the controller anymore, press the button and OT will send a value dump and the controller will update its values.
The Faderfox controllers with pots actually have a catch up mode, which would help you move the controls to the updated values without actually changing anything on OT, but they can´t automatically move themselves.
You need to understand how MIDI works, MIDI is sent unidirectionally and most Elektron boxes don’t provide MIDI feedback, so the controller has absolutely no way of knowing what’s happened in the box or not, it’s a limitation of both MIDI and the way MIDI is implemented on Elektrons not providing feedback data (I think the OT is the outlier here and does feedback to MIDI when you change parameters on the machine itself).
What you are asking is simply impossible through MIDI, I don’t know about Elektron’s USB API, no idea how they implemented Overbridge and it isn’t a public API anyway, with that USB API you could probably implement a controller that behaves exactly like the VSTs from Elektron, with feedback for values, maybe p-lock reading, etc., but MIDI is not a protocol for that.
Should be possible using the same mechanisms as Overbridge. Would be USB Only und exclude the Model-Series and the OT.
Simply using midi CC or NRPNs could actually work, but would either require the controller to listen to different midi messages than it sends or listen to midi messages on another midi channel - and ofc Elektron would have to implement the functionality first. As it is now, a held step does not send any midi messages.
This solution is somewhat impractical, either requires double the amount of CCs, another set of NRPNs or double the amount of midi channels used.
Sending the CC of that parameter when a p-locked step is held would be another way but could potentially mess up a lot, because you’d always have these CC messages flying around when you hold a step.
The technology for this controller shouldn’t maybe be MIDI then. All new Elektrons have USB with Overbridge. Elektron could create such a controller - we would be losing OB then … I don’t think the CPU is capable of more I/O though…
If it is possible and feasible, hopefully elektron would consider this general idea, whether an elektron controller comes through some kind of elektron midi thing or something else
Surgeon with an OT and a Faderfox
2 of the new Elektrons don’t have Overbridge and one of them are explicitly mentioned by Analog7.
@Schnork No, it won’t work (like you somehow wrote), because Elektron Boxes (But the OT) are not sending their state via MIDI out. so this would not only require a new expensive hardware, but also a lot of work in every firmware they maintain. Using something that’s already there for at least some products, AND brings way more bandwidth, would be a lot less developer hungry on their side.
Would love something like this. The power of the elektron sequencer in a box dedicated to sequence other devices and be the centre of a setup that feels perfect for performing. Hopefully it could send a cue click separately as well!