DT/MPC vs. DAW and the rest of the world

Instead of hyperbole that could come straight off a marketing ad it might be more enlightening/constructive to highlight the things that this sentence actually refers to and highlight the real world differences between using Push2 and DT (for someone with ableton/push already in their setup/workflow)? As a Push owner I’m genuinely interested. Im curious if I can make Push basically as nice to use as DT with same functionality or if there are some walls I’d hit if I tried. I’ve barely used Ableton in a long time and almost zero time on Push but it’s something I’ve always planning on getting more in to at some point. Just wondering where these differences are that you speak of lay and how significant they are?

I’ve owned push 2 and yea it integrates very well with ableton but I was always just faster with a keyboard n mouse so sadly I failed to see the real world advantage of it.
push is still tethered to a laptop and for me I’m never gonna use a laptop on stage again, they seem to love crashing at the worst possible moment.
push is different to dt in many ways, n not a comparison I care about much.
you’re really just comparing ableton to dt now.

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I think it can be compared to NI Form

especially if you combine it with a good sequencer, like Ableton… or max

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Yeah I can totally understand there’s no comparison for anyone or situation where they don’t wanna use a laptop :slight_smile: I wouldn’t want to use laptop on stage either. But that side of things was never mentioned so it seemed like a more valid comparison.

As a very basic ableton user and someone with almost zero time on Push I just wondered how close they could really be made to be and the benefits from each side. Maybe I’ll try to set up a DTesque template here if I get some time and see how it feels. Doesn’t seem like anyone else is really interested but I’d be curious just for my own sake now after bringing it up…

This was kind of my point :wink: If you have everything from equivalent 3rd party plugs mapped to Push and cover ONLY the same params as DT… I don’t see there being much difference in workflow/audio quality etc and it would be far cheaper to buy a couple of plugins/synths (for someone already using Push2/Ableton as a central part of their setup etc and not needing standalone).

I just thought tho, using Push2 as a quasi-DT means you maybe couldn’t use it as you normally might, in contrast to using DT separately in TANDEM with Ableton/Push. If that was something someone wanted to do. The relationship would be kind of different with both things being inside one box. So maybe that would be the biggest difference? Could be good or bad thing I guess, depending on user workflow etc…

Well yeah :wink: if you read back the discussion was born from someone saying Ableton made MPC live unnecessary for them, so seemed natural to question if the same statement could be made re Ableton vs DT :wink:

Had some how missed Form! Im still on K9 but making the move to K11 as soon as a sale lands. Form could well be what I’m looking for ITB.

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I think it all depends on the individual. I can see both sides and probably sit more on your side of things to be honest. But, this argument can go on forever - why bother owning hardware synths and things when ITB works so well (Kontrol S Series) and sounds so good for example!

From what I’ve seen, DT is, to me, overpriced for what it delivers. I’m sure I’m missing something but with MPC Live (and 2nd hand OT) being c£150 more, it just seems like money better spent. But I guess the benefits in all instrumnets are in the eye of the beholder.

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There is a difference between ‘can do something’ and ‘lends itself to doing something’

Ableton CAN accomplish everything that MPClive or DT could ever hope to do. Can it do those things as easily or elegantly? I spent some time setting up an Ableton template that accomplished everything I love about the OT. It worked and was immensely more powerful than the OT… but somehow… meh…

We are spoiled for choice in all the ways to skin a cat these days. Now the criteria should be how intuitively does the tool skin cats.

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This was going a bit too far…

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I think if you plan on using Ableton and Push 2 alongside the Digitakt in production then most definitely Digitakt would be unnecessary.
The opposite is true If you are working away from the computer (& push), it suddenly makes sense as a good drum sampler and sequencer for other gear.
The Digitakt is a good drum sampler and sequencer, but can’t compare with the power of Ableton / Push 2, and particularly if you have Max 4 Live also.
If you don’t have it yet, my suggestion would be to add Max 4 Live, and forget Digitakt, as there is nothing that can’t be done with the Ableton / Push2 / Max4live combination.

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I have push 2 and while it is good it is a little bit too much of everything tbh. I wish they made a controller in that form but with faders instead of the pads. What I really want is a great mixing environment itb. I’ve basically come to the conclusion that that’s where i am at now. But that’s just me I guess.

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It’ll be interesting to see where Ableton go next with Push. I’d love for an MPE Push 3.

Out of interest, why not go with an APC Mk2? Or even Maschine Jam?

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While ther might be nothing that couldn’t be done with push, live and max, the path to getting where you want to be is unacceptably long for some (like me). Many times I’ve thought to myself “ok now imma build this dream setup with m4l”… And get stuck faffing around in max, only to give up later. So YMMV.

For me, it boils down to having to choose between A) maisc music/playing or B) systems design, DSP/programming… And since I seemingly have the time and energy for only one of these, I’ve ended up choosing A for the moment.

After years of being ITB with Logic Pro (going back to Logic 3.8) and then Ableton, I moved to Push before going hardware only (MPC1000 plus jjos plugged into MD and a bunch of synths) last year. This was mainly because Push didn’t satisfy my need for tactile, one-button-one-function workflow. With Push I still found myself looking at the screen to work out what I was tweaking.

For me, software is easier when I have a clear vision in my head of what I want to achieve, but the beauty of hardware is the ‘happy accidents’ and flow - I can set something up on one bit of kit then move to another to counterpoint/transition etc. After a couple of hours I’ve been lost in the music and ended up at a destination I couldn’t have predicted when I started. I can’t get that looking at a screen and clicking a mouse. With hardware it’s easier to muck around and come up with something completely unexpected. I find this much more satisfying, probably because it forces me to focus on what I’m hearing rather than what I’m seeing on a screen.

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No need for any systems design or DSP programming with M4L.
I’ve never had to program anything as the M4L database on their site is rediculous. Whatever you want has already been made.
Just a case of searching for what you want, downloading the M4L device, load it on a Ableton track and go nuts :loopy:
But anyway we all work different so whatever works, works

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Cenk does an amazing job and the way he demos Elektron products is just other level. My point would be that not everyone has that kind of skill and some people will buy the DT thinking that they’ll be able to do the same stuff as Cenk. I think they’ll be disappointed. With something like Maschine or Ableton even if you lack the skills you can still make something interesting. This thought occurred to me when I watched a vid of the DT at superbooth that was being demoed by another guy from Elektron and not Cenk. Kind of didn’t sound as good. The market these days is about getting crap musicians to come up with something that can be listened to. Eurorack is all about that and that’s why it’s growing.

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Ive looked everywhere for how to plock in ableton. Thought it was using automation …
Any sequencer without the ability to change peramaters per step etc kills me!!

Not sure I follow.
How come you can’t plock with automation in Ableton?
Hit record, turn a knob when sequencer playing, done?

that’s not p-locks that’s standard automation.