Drums : A4 vs AR

sabana · 2020-05-18T14:52:39.685Z

I’m not a greedy person else i would.

darenager · 2020-05-18T15:30:44.116Z

A4/AK is much better for snares, toms, hand percussion still. For kicks it can get more variety too IMHO. Also for more realistic drum sounds it is the better option if just talking synthesis, and for certain analog drum sounds it still comes out on top IMHO. Having said this I do like AR engines more than I did, since the added engines imp, noise, vco etc.

I’m working on Druma2 on a piecemeal basis, don’t know when it will be finished as I have lots of irons in the fire at present, but in the meantime Druma is available here https://payhip.com/b/aQB1 if you have not already heard it.

Unifono · 2020-05-18T15:40:27.279Z

darenager:

I’m working on Druma2

waiting for it since I got the first one.
Can I make a request for a rolandish acid soundset for the A4/AK next?

Said it somewhere else already, I owned the AR only for a short period of time and could obviously not dig deep enough, but without sample layering, I thought my A4 does nicer drumbeats. Drums sound very “alive” on the A4 and still punchy
But only 4 voices, and if you want to create your own sounds, you have to invest much more time, than on the AR.
I found the AR makes super nice, weighty monosynth bass sounds, without the need of using a resonant hp filter to boost the low end (which is required on the A4 for many bass sounds)

sabana · 2020-05-18T15:47:34.028Z

That last comment intrigues me. As the Super 6 covers a lot of synth bases for mid nd higher tones i was looking for a bass monosynth as well for laying down tracks. Now the AR would be very useful if this was easy to do.

Unifono · 2020-05-18T15:57:13.754Z

I got very nice basses from the low tom, the dual vco and with single cycle waves.

The A4 can do nice basses as well, but needs a bit more fine tuning in my experience

darenager · 2020-05-18T16:20:52.346Z

Unifono:

Can I make a request for a rolandish acid soundset for the A4/AK next?

You mean drums or synths too? Funny enough a classic Roland pack is on the cards too, it is a bit painstaking as I A/B with target sound until it sounds right, so I tend to do it one sound at a time, I am bit of a perfectionist too, and won’t settle for inaccuracies so that takes a lot of time, got some really nice stuff so far though, but again not sure when it will be out. I’m thinking a project format would be best as perf macros are very hand to keep the sounds “in range”.

I even have some quirks/attributes in a couple that only a few very experienced owners (nerds) of the originals would recognise

Unifono · 2020-05-18T16:57:16.043Z

darenager:

You mean drums or synths too?

synths
was watching your old A4 acid demos on youtube recently

darenager:

Funny enough a classic Roland pack is on the cards too,

awesome. can‘t wait

d_hansen · 2020-05-18T17:26:45.236Z

one of the main factors for me in this comparison is the difference between the AR’s multimode filter and that of the A4. i find the self oscillation on the AR filter to be much more useful for filter ping-based percussion than the A4’s. it’s just so much easier to dial in strong sinewave toms & kicks and get lots of oomph with the envelopes, in my experience at least.

i also find the noise machine on the AR to be stronger and more impactful than the noise gen on the A4, which makes noise-based percussion on the AR fantastic, especially if you use the filter and amp envelopes to get pseudo-LPG type thwacks. and of course, its hat & cymbal sounds just aren’t possible on the A4, or at least not at all easy to approximate.

meanwhile the A4 obviously has a greater degree of depth for sound design, so while it’s more limited with regards to harmonically rich hats/cymbals, taro’s soundsets have shown that it seriously excels in more complex FM/RM-based drum sounds when compared to the AR, especially hand percussion/wood sounds. and, as mentioned by someone already, i’ve found the A4 is a bit more capable of drum sounds that sit well in a mix without too much fiddling. there’s something in the synthesis engine, especially with the MKII, that has more clarity and definition in the high end.

Unifono · 2020-05-18T17:34:21.383Z

may I ask which originals serve as role models?

darenager · 2020-05-18T18:00:41.774Z

Sure, TB-303, System100m, SH-101, Jupiter8, Juno 106, JX3p mainly. Also 808, 909, 606, DR-110, DR-55.

Unifono · 2020-05-18T18:50:34.624Z

sounds great

sezare56 · 2020-05-18T23:33:09.490Z

Talking about analog drums priority, I’d go AR for easy predefined drums. You can go deeper with A4/AK, much more modulations with envelopes and lfos, but the sweet spots are not easy to set. It has no master distortion compressor, and AR AMP Overdrive seems to have much more balls. Easily punchier with AR imho.

A4/AK is much more versatile for analog stuff, AR envelopes / lfos are really limited, but you can get good mono synths, probably better than A4/AK for bass as said.
AR samples engine brings other territories, bit reduction, single cycle sample chain…

AR perfs are interesting for momentary tweaking, but with more than 4 perfs, it’s physically difficult to play all. With A4/AK it’s much easier to play the 10 perfs subtly or not imho, and you can mute tracks at the same time.

A4/AK can be definitely acid, but I much prefer my Xox Heart for Tb303 stuff. Perfs helps a lot for sweet spots though.

Floppydisk_Pirates · 2020-05-19T00:31:43.431Z

I had the AR for a long time but got better results with the A4. Much deeper and tighter kicks. But it took a lot more time to achieve those patches. I think I spent two months on the drum enthusiast sound pack until I dared to release it. When I later had the AR, it was a good, quick and easy help to play a beat in combination to the synth arrangement but for really complex beats with flavors, the AK had to be placed next to the A4 At least, that’s how it was for me. I bought the AR twice and then sold it again…

caramellokoala · 2020-05-19T01:55:20.751Z

As a dedicated drum machine the Rytm is far more streamlined and easier to work with, you have pads, more voices, and more sweet spots as all the machines are tailored specifically for percussion. The A4 is very good at drums and percussion too, and is actually a lot more versatile as it can go outside of the range that the AR allows due to having more parameters to tweak, as opposed to only a few on each machine in the AR. But building a drum sound from scratch takes considerably more time and effort, whereas on the Rytm it’s instant gratification. With the A4 it’s almost necessary to start with presets unless you enjoy a slow and methodical workflow when it comes to making drum kits. Druma, Taro’s FM packs and Drum Enthusiast are all excellent starting points and honestly produce sounds that are on par or even better than the Rytm. Especially when it comes to FM or physically modelled sounds, like realistic snares and toms. The Rytm has samples though, which is a very useful thing to have in a drum machine.

JamesM · 2020-05-19T02:36:59.065Z

So, a Tempest is the way to go

JamesM · 2020-05-19T02:40:30.343Z

Floppydisk_Pirates:

the AK had to be placed next to the A4

Do you mean AnalogRytm, or did you have percussions on both AK And A4?

Floppydisk_Pirates · 2020-05-19T02:52:29.991Z

JamesM:

Do you mean AnalogRytm, or did you have percussions on both AK And A4?

I used to have the AR next to the A4 but later the AK next to the A4 to use the AK as a drum machine and the A4 for melodies and stuff. Or the AK for melodies and the A4 for drums

Cosmic · 2020-05-19T03:32:32.153Z

A4 is great for drums but have never been able to create those sounds myself, always relied on the great available drum packs from taro and floppydisk pirate.

evsey · 2020-05-21T13:56:19.766Z

AK / A4 is amazing for drums.
But it has different workflow, and I like it as a separate idea VS dedicated (traditional) drum machine.
AR you have to program beats like everything else (like Ableton, other drum machines).
With AK you can do more generative, groove like beats on one or two tracks with sound locks, or other tricks.
Today if I need to put something fast I use AK more often than DT, but you have to buy dedicated presets banks (Taro is amazing) for drums one or two, multimap them and go crazy

blakewalt · 2020-05-28T03:13:56.924Z

I sold my AR mkI because the A4 was a better drum machine to my ears.

I’m not a sound designer type of guy and use the available sound banks created by floppy disk and the druma sound bank, they worked better for me than the AR.
I’m even contemplating buying an other A4 mkI second hand to have 8 tracks to fool around.
With one A4 & sound locks you can do quite a lot of interesting things drum wise though.