Does chorus or delay at all factor into voice count/stealing?

SlickD75 · 2023-09-30T01:25:41.983Z

Was getting some crackling and popping on a little beat I’m working on. It has these chords in track two of the digitone playing maybe 4-6 notes on a given step and some hats and fx type sounds in track 1. I do realize I’m pushing the voice count, so I’m going to end up recording each track separately into the mpc, which I hate doing and is another topic for another forum. But anyway, the question is does delay and chorus impact the voices at all or was I just hearing something else?

hyperstationjr · 2023-09-30T01:30:22.936Z

SlickD75:

does delay and chorus impact the voices at all

No. They’re send effects and have nothing to do with voice count. Imagine running your Digitone through a guitar pedal, more or less the same thing but internalized in the device itself.

Not sure what you were hearing, maybe rapid voice stealing? Overdrive from the master overdrive effect? Are you listening directly or through a DAW or something else where audio buffering would be an issue?

shigginpit · 2023-09-30T01:31:40.540Z

I think I remember that is has something to do with the envelope, are they chords with really long notes or conversely really short notes? I might be wrong about this but I’ll look for where I read that.

also hyperstation is right it’s not the delay or chorus, it’s a guitar pedal (simple description) inside your digitone so it’s not using synth voices.

*I think people usually call it a clicking noise, if that sounds about right you could read this, there’s some explanations

Why is the Digitone clicking? Digitone/Digitone Keys

With only one voice, no filter, enveloppe reset on & off… still clicking…

Why is the Digitone clicking? Digitone/Digitone Keys

With release = 0, sustain different from 0, you can have clicks. It is the case with Blofeld init patch. Did you try Release settings different from INF, low values ? I hope you’ll find out, I don’t have DN, so I can’t try.

the quick answer was try a shorter note length so I guess not the envelope, or maybe there was something about that in another discussion but I’d look at note length first, if it’s long notes. If not we’ll try and figure it out or whatever.

here’s something else with a video:

Video: Digitone - Dealing with Clicks and Voice Stealing (Understanding Voice Management) Digitone/Digitone Keys

[Digitone - Dealing with Clicks and Voice Stealing (Understanding Voice Management)] This is one of those niche topics I’ve wanted to do a video about for a while, because I’ve seen people ask about unwanted clicks and such on the Digitone a fair bit, but I needed to organise my thoughts a bit before I put this together. Hopefully this might help some folks out.

SlickD75 · 2023-09-30T01:51:45.159Z

169603866480771071749507777060404000×1800 1.48 MB

SlickD75 · 2023-09-30T01:53:19.065Z

Digitone is playing hihats and other percussion in track 1 and these notes in track two. I had the chorus close to maximum. Turned it down and the pops went away. Earlier i tried messing with the envelope but it had mostly no effect.

shigginpit · 2023-09-30T01:54:31.022Z

Do you think it was volume related then, like clipping? did the db level seem to go down significantly when you reduced the chorus? otherwise I can’t see why that would have the impact you described.

Keep in mind, I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just saying Idk why it would.

SlickD75 · 2023-09-30T02:07:27.770Z

I’m not even sure tbh. That may have been it. I’ll try to reproduce it a minute and I’ll take a look st the levels.

shigginpit · 2023-09-30T02:10:05.107Z

Ok no hurry, I’m also curious though just because more information helps everyone in the long run. If it didn’t sound audibly quiet compared to before though it probably didn’t have that much impact. I’ll have to think about it, nothing is jumping out at me.

lowph · 2023-09-30T03:25:02.573Z

It really depends on the patches being played, the voice settings, and the sequencing, but a few areas I check out when I hear clicking on the DN:

Voice reuse in the voice menu. Some times it helps, sometimes it hurts
Modulation envelope phase resets on SYN2 page 2 (ARST/BRST).
Amp envelope reset on AMP page 2 (AENR)

I didn’t really explain the “why” of each, because it depends on how your patch is set up. I would watch the little voice usage squares on the voice page and try to see which voice you think is clicking – at least that’s how I chase down clicks and pops. I use a lot of voice sharing between tracks voice reuse, and intentional voice stealing… the above settings are key to controlling clicks for me.

SlickD75 · 2023-09-30T06:45:48.088Z

Word. Yea I’ll look into those tomorrow. All I know is bumping down the chorus seemed to do the trick. But ill give it another look tomorrow.

shigginpit · 2023-09-30T06:53:27.406Z

Can you tell me which page you’re turning down the chorus from? I want to confirm something.

Pharmer · 2023-09-30T06:55:15.590Z

The mpc will clip when the input exceeds the limit. I have elektron boxes running into my mpc one and have to make sure the boxes are not sending in too-high a signal.

Go to the record screen on the moc one while the boxes are playing and see if the input signal is hitting the top at any point

Microtribe · 2023-09-30T09:20:16.404Z

SlickD75:

some crackling and popping

Gain staging. running too much signal into the fx will cause clipping.

Also how you have the fx mixed.

Lots of notes, lots of sustain lots of fx send , things will get hot very quickly.

Control your amp envelopes.

And no, the fx do not cause voice stealing.

deadfly · 2023-09-30T09:23:18.944Z

This video is really useful

Bryan_T · 2023-09-30T18:32:35.098Z

Crackling makes me suspect you’re overloading the master between all your tracks and effects. I’d assess that before diving into the envelopes or voice-stealing issues. All of these things can lead to unwanted distortion, but it sounds like you were on the cusp of distortion and the chorus kicked it over the top.

SlickD75 · 2023-09-30T23:15:14.997Z

The second Amp page

shigginpit · 2023-10-01T00:07:00.597Z

yeah it sounds to me like you weren’t doing anything wrong, especially using presets I don’t think you need to worry so much about how the patches were set up. everyone sounds like they have valid points depending on how you’re using the thing but given the way you’re actually using it, it does sound more like a clipping issue and bryan_t is probably correct that might be overloading the master which could make it a gain staging issue which I think someone already mentioned. Are you actually sending audio through the MPC or is it just your sequencing hub? I mean definitely check into what everyone else said, it could be anything, but from the way you’re using it and since it doesn’t seem to be the note length/envelope I would have to guess it’s a clipping issue, you know?

Did you by chance try changing the depth of the chorus from the (func+syn2) chorus page instead of increasing the amount sent through the chorus on the amp page? It might give you something like what you’re after without pushing the master over the top. you might have to play around back and forth with the balance of the 2 settings though

SlickD75 · 2023-10-01T01:47:13.526Z

Damn. Seems like you’re spot on, especially at the end. It looks like the chorus depth is maxed out. I didn’t even know there was a depth for the chorus lol. Every time I have an issue here, I always leave with the problem being solved plus. I love it. Thanks again

shigginpit · 2023-10-01T01:56:15.592Z

no prob bob. I really hope that it was that easy to fix, everyone helped though so it just goes to show it’s always better to have more people’s input

SlickD75 · 2023-10-01T02:06:21.542Z

Yea it was. I’d have to say part of the worth of dealing with the elektron shit is the community. If you go anywhere else on the internet looking for help, prepared to be disrespected at least 7 times before or if you ever even get the damn help. Not that anyone owes anyone anything, but the fact that this sort of help exists here is crazy to me. Kinda makes me re-evaluate the way I buy shit.