Does a minimal one-voice Eurorack addition to OT+A4 make sense? [Edit: or how to achieve modular generativeness on OT+A4]

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
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Hi y’all,

I’m considering selling my Digitakt, as I’m enjoying using the OT for drums next to being my mixer and for longer samples. For some reason I’m enjoying OT more on drums then DT on top of it. I use OT together with A4 [edit: A4 MK2], techno domain.

The only thing that I keep experimenting with or looking for is one addition to the OT+A4 that adds some unexpected developments / rhythms, for some live improvisation. To have sóme unexpected results and off the grid patterns next to the more controlled A4 and OT.

I’d imagine some kind of combination of modules where I’d be able to “find” patterns/melodies, so not looking for something xoxo based or with a large amount of control per step. I wouldnt be averse to or ashamed of something that helps generating interesting developing patterns/melodies. Writing them myself I can do already (or at least try to) on the OT and A4.

Am I naive to think I could add a véry small eurorack setup for this goal, using A4 MK2’s cv outputs?

I’m really thinking towards a véry small rig: basically (#1) just some generative/Euclidean kind of sequencer for developing unexpected patterns to balance the more rigid Elektron patterns. And (#2) then obviously a voice. I was thinking for example Plaits - I think it sounds beautiful l, it should be very broad in scope, and if I understand correctly it should have a simple (decay) envelope, which would mean I wouldn’t have to buy a VCA envelope?

To break up my questions:

A) If I’d use A4’s cv tracks [edit: A4 MK2], would buying a Euclidean kind of sequencing/pattern generating module + one voice like Plaits be enough to work, if I route the audio back to an A4 synth track using the audio-in? Could I do without a filter module or envelope module?

B) I don’t fully understand yet how I’d pitch things, in the Eurorack/CV domain. If I’d want melodies from the one voice like Plaits, which even seems to do chords, would I also need a module for that, like a pitch Quantizer or something? (Tonic? Disting?) Or can I use one of A4’s cv tracks for that?

C) What are all the duties I could use A4 for, to keep the amount of modules to a minimum? It would be super interesting to just add 2 or 3 modules (20hp?) to the OT+A4 for some unexpected developments in a small footprint, but maybe this is just super naive of an idea :joy:

D) If not too naive, and sort of possible, tips for modules? What about a combination of Plaits (12hp, €200) + the 2HP Euclidean sequencer (2HP, €100) or the Euclidean Circles or the Stocheia + maybe something for pitch like the Tonic (6hp, €140)? Selling the DT could get me close to that kind of purchase, but I’m not sure if thats enough by using A4’s CV’s and audio input as much as possible?

Curious to hear!

EDIT, added post-discussion. This thread basically morphed into two directions: Adding modular to OT+A4 for generative/evolving patterns or how to achieve them without :grin:

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The A4 by itself can play Plaits chromatically. You can send pitch and gate signals (2 CV signals) to Plaits from the A4 but Plaits also has a feature whereby it will retrigger (i.e. gate) every time it receives a new pitch signal thus you can use the remaining three A4 CV signals to modulate Plaits.

The A4s CV track sits around its sequencer, which includes the arp and plocks plus there are LFOs and envelopes so using another module to sequence Plaits reduces the need to use the A4 somewhat.

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@Stickhit

This info is great, thanks! Both about the A4 cv uses and the function of Plaits being able to trigger gates with incoming pitch signals.

Thinking towards my hope of “finding” unexpected, developing sequences/melodies, what would you do? Just use A4’s cv track and set the track length to INF with a non-16 step track length? (That I could already do with one on the A4 synth tracks though without needing Plaits) Or add a module for spitting out patterns, or a module for spitting out quantized pitches for melodies?

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To give you a different Idea…i would add a Chase Bliss Mood or Blooper pedal and reroute the output back into A4/OT.

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If I were you, I would try to consider pushing further with ot and A4 befor diving into euro.

For exemple, use a4 multimap instant pattern switching by hand or by controlling it with one or more ot’s midi tracks. Use conditional trigs and fill mode on each to taste.
With this method you can already gets pretty wild on a bunch of patterns.

Use another midi track to call sounds from the sound pool with very low trig probability.

One trick I like to use is having a sequencer running a pretty steady sequence on a elektron box and sending ot midi sequencer on top of that to add variation…Fill is still your friend to add more and 1st/no 1st conditions are invaluable for transitions.

Try to live resample with the ot using record and play trigs that are different from original source…

With all that, you should get really good results without spending a dime…

Then, go to euro and get cursed ! :rofl: You’ve been warned ! :innocent:

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I got into euro for the exact same reason, adding some impro and some not so linear sequencing. Plaits its awesome, have a look at smaller modules like de beehive. Euclidean circles is perfect, with 6 euclidean gates but maybe too much for you if you just want a single voice. I would def add something to add modulation like Pam’s new workout, ir can be anything from envelopes, clocks, lfo etc. A filter will add nice character to that voice as well, something small like a wmd c4rbon or an intellijel ufilter. Both of this oscillate with high resonance and I believe they track 1v/oct so you could even have a kind of second voice there (as well as making nice kicks) posibilities are endless.

You could just send clock + pitch cv from elektrons, and get the rythms from the modualr itself

But as they say, think twice about getting into eurorack, It is fairly addictive hahaha.

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Sorry but I don’t have and have never had a Eurorack system so I can’t advise further.

The only reason I know so much about Plaits (and Braids) is because it was one of the options I considered that would utilize the CV track on the A4 (my actual choice was a Kenton CV to MIDI converter). Also, I have since replaced my A4 with a Digitone.

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Hi y’all, thanks for all the good and positive replies. I think I’m going to take away two things already from these:

  1. Its super nice to see that it ís possible with only a small amount of modules. Maybe one or two more then I was mentioning but not perse 48+ hp. And that it seems like this idea of adding some free form / generative improv seems to fit this idea.

  2. I’m not getting into it yet. I’m afraid that I’ll quickly spend more money then I can afford responsibly:)) And I appreciate the fact that my current gear will be able to do way more then I’m currently achieving.

It still is really a challenge for me though, getting these types of unexpected, off the grid but musical patterns. I keep trying changing track lengths from 16 steps to any other less 4/4 number, and experiment with probability, but it will most often sound both random yet boring repetitive at the same time.

I’ll keep experimenting with stuff like lfo’s, the arp, chance, non-4/4 pattern lengths etc., and maybe at some point dare to wrap my head around midi mapping. But this stuff is hard man! Sometimes it really starts to be a bit disheartening wrapping my head around all this stuff…

Maybe I (or many of us) just ask too much from ourselves. Will try to get myself back to just enjoying experimenting and making music without all this gear-induced self doubt :upside_down_face:

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I think that the combination of a4 + ot is a monster modular set up.

Edit:
http://www.elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=28&func=view&id=213870&catid=9&limit=10&limitstart=0

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Arturia Microfreak is basically Plaits…

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They share the same soundsource although they are totally different things

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…but could do, what the OP asked for.

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Yes for the voice, not for euclidean sequencing and other kinds of modulation, i thought would be interesting

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Hi there,

I am going through the same process currently. To answer your questions:

A) You can trigger the LFO and EG on the A4 to the modular system I think without a filter or envelope on the modular system.

Yes. I do this with my Make Noise 0-coast to add a layer of weird FX and drone or some acid bass lines. Works amazing with the A4 over CV. I also sample via MIDI to my Octatrack and remix for weird stuff. For me, the beauty of modular gear is to add spice and supplement Elektron gear.

B) Pitch with CV out from A4 to 1v.oct on the modular system to VCO I think.

I believe you would connect the CV outputs A-D on the A4 to the modular 1v/oct input patch point. You do need to setup the CV connections in the A4 menu and the A4 manual shows some examples. I am getting into modular and went with a Doepfer A100 Basic system that comes with a powered Doepfer case, one row of Doepfer modules including the essential utilities like VCA, mixers and envelopes and a row free of 84HP for expansion to add weird fun modules. I do highly recommend the free VCV Rack software to get an idea of modules and all of the Mutable Instruments modules are there in realistic format to try out like Plaits and so forth. You don’t need to buy Eurorack sequencer modules yet as you can control the modular stuff via CV from the A4 or via MIDI to CV from the OT as long as you have a MIDI to CV module in your Eurorack setup. I recommend only a few modules at first including utilities.

C) Duties to use A4 with modular

You can use the A4 for sequencing, modular controller, and FX processing to the modular system. I do this currently with my Make Noise 0-coast and it works amazing using the CV track on the A4 to control and sequence the 0-coast modular and then layer delay and reverb FX from the A4. That will save you tons of cash right now.

D) tips for modules
Get lots of utiltiy modules like VCA, mults, mixer and envelopes. Many folks go out and buy a dozen VCOs and not enough VCAs or EGs and have issues. I recommend creating a build on modulargrid.com and also download the free VCV Rack software. Both are great planning and learning tools. I found out from folks on muffwiggler forum that my build was lacking VCAs and EGs.

Hope this helps. We can share the journey at same time as my A100 Doepfer shows up later this week or next.

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I encourage anyone interested in eurorack to go ahead and give it a try. You already have a great ecosystem as a foundation between the OT and A4. I’ll go with the Plaits and a nice sequencer like a Rene. Get a vca and an envelope and you’ll be set.

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Now … here comes the devils advocat … :smiling_imp:

Why go modular at all … have you ever looked at the Pyramid? It has a couple of options to generate happy accidents and has an Euclidean generator for each track as well :wink:

But … talking Eurorack …
There are a couple of sequencers (with variable stage lenghts and conditional jumps), “sources of uncertainty”, envelope generators (like Maths), logic and additive combiners, clock dividers and multipliers, and quantizers, which can do a pretty good job to generate everything between interesting variations of an idea and chaos. It’s only the question, if you are ready to jump down this rabbit hole :wink:

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This is basically what I’m most interested in, I’m finding. The extra voice like plaits seemed nice, but as I’m often not using all A4 tracks it’s becoming clear to me that most of all I’m just looking for some more unexpected and developing elements with my OT and A4. (Added: although something like plaits seems super nice to just throw some knobs around and “find” a sound that you can then run with. It does look and sound quite like a simple to use sound source with many sweet spots?)

Currently I did a step back, because I’m not ready yet for the rabbit hole, also financially hahaha.

What I’m trying to do since yesterday is trying to learn better to create developing sounds and patterns on the A4. I really thought Elektrons were limited in this regard, compared to modular, but it will probably never just come easy, also not with modular, and probably there’s more possible with my current gear then I was wanting to see.

The generative / Euclidean / developing / generative stuff is difficult though. Yesterday tried a bunch of stuff but it became overwhelmingly complex. Now I’m trying to step back and try to experiment with one thing at a time:

  • rhythms / melodies with different track lengths
  • lfos (from A4 or via midi from OT) used on pitch or on the arp for changing melodies (this im finding especcially hard to get musical results from!!)
  • very slow lfos on filter frequencies or AMP decay etc to change patches over time back and forth
  • etc

Stranded off topic here. Or maybe actually more to the core of the topic of developing/generative sequences, Modular or not.

Would people here say that’s more suited to modular then Elektron workflow? And if that’s too easy of a question: would you say it’s worth getting into modular for, does it come easier with it? Or just as much new problems and difficulties?

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Can you share what would be the benefit / necessity of adding a vca? For example plaits does have a simple decay envelop, correct? And/or couldn’t you just use an A4 synth track, route the sound from the modular into it, choose the external sound source in the A4 as OSC, and throw triggs on every step in the A4 sequencer, and use those to use the A4 envelopes as vca? Just like you could with the A4 filter? Or would you be missing a lot?

Added: Isn’t a vca similar to what’s the AMP envelope in the A4?

Added2: O I do understand that if you’re wanting to create unexpected sequences, then you’d háve to place triggs on áll the steps in the A4, which might give some problems, perhaps for notes longer then 16ths…(?)

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For generative patches modular is great, but it takes a couple of suited modules to go there. On the other side, going modular isn’t mandatory :wink:

Euclidean can be done manually quite easy with any step sequencer. There’s only little more to do than to turn a knob to change the number of events. Check out this article, which I found some time ago …

Elektron sequencer support to push/pull a sequence step by step to the left or right. If we have two tracks at an Euclidean rhythm and even if we push/pull only one of the tracks, many different patterns are created. To use an Euclidean module or algorithm is not necessary, it’s only more convenient. IMO it’s easy to memorize Euclidean patterns and program them even in a live situation.

IMO it wouldn’t come easier, because creating self generating patches takes some thinking in advance. There is a nice video by Loopop about this, covering quite a lot of ground and he is not only talking about modular. Maybe there are some ideas for your projects :wink:

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Thanks @SoundRider

I watched the loopop video recently, but think I’ll give it another spin and pull out a pad and pen. The article I didn’t know so thanks for sharing!

Plus I’ll start making notes on Euclidean recipies / sequences I guess :grin:

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