DN/ MD / Polyend Tracker Humming Situation [SOLVED]

birdster · 2023-11-14T23:14:32.326Z

Hey there!

Was already trying to discuss this in the Polyend forum, but I feel like it’s community is much smaller than Elektronauts, so I thought I will give it a try here as well, since Elektron gear is also involved.

As you can see from the title I have a Machinedrum hooked up to the Polyend Tracker hooked up to the Digitone. The Tracker is in the middle, controlling the Digitone and Machinedrum via MIDI. Digitone is at the end of the chain since I need it’s input channels to record everything via Overbridge into Ableton.

Unfortunately there is a humming sound which can’t really be located…

Here are a few scenarios I did try so far:

MD → Headphone Out = no humming
Tracker → Headphone Out = no humming
DN → Headphone Out = no humming
MD → DN → Headphone Out = no humming
MD → Tracker → Headphone Out = no humming
Tracker → DN → Headphone Out = no humming
MD → Tracker → DN → Headphone Out = HUMMING?!?!
MD (TURNED ON) → Tracker (TURNED OFF) → DN → Headphone Out = HUMMING?!?!
(Tracker → MD → DN → Headphones = no humming /// works fine, but this is not the setup I desire, because I would love to record the Machinedrum into the Tracker.)

Additonal Information:

MD → Tracker → Heaphone Out: when Line-In channel of the Tracker is activated (no matter something is connected or not) = humming, but disappears when MD is turned on. It comes back when I connect it to the Digitone and listen through it’s Headphone Output.

I’m confused and frustrated. This all makes no sense to me. I probably forgot to mention some more details, but I think the problem is (hopefully) clear enough for now…

I already was suggested to use a mono cable to connect the MD with the Tracker and also to try a different USB charger for Tracker’s power supply. Both did not work for me.

Any ideas or advice? I just want a clean signal

shigginpit · 2023-11-14T23:40:05.597Z

Is everything powered from the same outlet / power strip? It does sound like a ground loop is present. I’d try and record something and verify whether the humming is present in the audio or if it’s related to the headphones/headphones output specifically.

I’m just hypothesizing, but from what you described, the problem is probably with the tracker, even though you tried a different USB power source, USB is notoriously noisy. Although the digitone seems like it should be the culprit, in all situations with humming the tracker is the common denominator.

Unless you have a whole other set of cables you can try, I’d start by running a few tests of connecting everything except the tracker, if there’s no humming that would be a more coherent indication that the problem is with the tracker.

If you have a in-line audio ground loop isolator, try that after the headphone out and see if the noise goes away. The reason I suggested a test recording is that if you are only getting ground loop interference in the headphone out, you may be able to work around it with a ground loop isolator. Also, though the chance is slim, don’t rule out the headphones themselves. It would not be consistent with your test results, but my noise cancelling headphones exacerbate noise in certain gear and not in others.

If things are plugged into 2 different outlets, do your best to bring it to 1 single outlet or power strip (that’s the simplest way you can hope to eliminate a ground loop if it’s as a result of 2 wall outlets with separate grounding).

Microtribe · 2023-11-15T05:20:57.201Z

shigginpit:

USB is notoriously noisy.

This is why I dislike USB power.

bwo · 2023-11-15T05:27:55.581Z

You could try a USB ground loop isolator, I have to use one with my M8 if I try to use my H6 at the same time on USB.

birdster · 2023-11-15T13:22:29.134Z

shigginpit:

Is everything powered from the same outlet / power strip?

Yes.

shigginpit:

I’d try and record something and verify whether the humming is present in the audio or if it’s related to the headphones/headphones output specifically.

I tried and the humming is also present in the recordings i did via Overbridge into Ableton.

shigginpit:

the problem is probably with the tracker

I think so too. As soon as the Tracker is involved there’s humming.

Microtribe:

This is why I dislike USB power.

I’m getting there too, mate…

shigginpit:

you may be able to work around it with a ground loop isolator

bwo:

You could try a USB ground loop isolator, I have to use one with my M8 if I try to use my H6 at the same time on USB.

Yeah, I guess I should buy and play around with some isolaters…

Thank y’all for the help already!

[Beware: optional, anger involved rant]:
I love the Polyend Tracker, but maaan - it’s really too expensive for what it is. It may look/ feel very solid at first sight, but I already had so much trouble with it (having it for about 8 weeks now?)…

Suggested powerbanks aren’t working properly with it (not using it now)
The Decksaver does not fit properly (I know, different manufacturer, but still)
The included SD card fried in the first few days, so i had to buy a new one
Unstable and glitchy firmware, causing crashes, frying SD cards,
The jogwheel will be the next problem, i guess…
And now: unpleasant humming situation, for which it have to buy stuff again to fix their stuff.

Maybe I’m too spoiled coming from monome and going Elektron, never had any of those issues with their products. Or am I too picky, when ranting about a 700€ product that is starting to feel like an conceptional unfished product? Don’t get me wrong. I love the workflow, I love the idea of it, but for this price it doesn’t feel right to deal with such non-sense…

shigginpit · 2023-11-15T16:56:55.569Z

It’s difficult to say which feelings we have are justified and which are not. When we start having to justify our feelings, isn’t that a problem in and of itself? As people, we are entitled to have feelings, that’s the nature of life is that if you are a properly functioning human, that you will feel things. After the feelings, what we do with those feelings is that which will define a given situation, and that is the point where things become a bit convoluted.

I read something once that said any escalated situation is 10% the situation itself, and 90% how you react to the situation. In this case, if you can’t find other accounts of the Polyend tracker exhibiting this much noise in a shared setup, is it possible there is a manufacturing defect that would be covered by warranty?

As far as isolators go, there are 2 kinds which you may already be aware of, the type I was discussing (in-line isolator) is a plug in device such as this:

It is very rudimentary and is a basic tool which, for cabled audio, has advantages and detractors. With your added detail about humming present in the overbridge recording, simply stopping the hum coming out of the tracker may be sufficient to resolve that but the downside is the gain of the audio from the tracker or anything that passes through the tracker will require an adjustment to balance it out and it may or may not lose some character, this is a very inexpensive solution and you’ll have to see if it works for you.

The USB isolator bwo is referring to is this kind:

It is entirely possible that this type which plugs directly into the USB port of a power source and then the cable goes out to the device (tracker) will eliminate the problem at the source and thus you won’t need the inline variety. There are people who swear by these, but there will be someone along shortly to tell you this is a placebo and that they don’t work, or that only certain ones work, and that’s the nature of this kind of device, there will always be conjecture regarding whether they actually work or not and they are certainly the more expensive of the 2 types of isolators. You may have to do some homework on this.

I have also recently tried this for a situation I was dealing with:

image970×600 109 KB

image1000×1000 151 KB

And though there are different, more expensive brands, which make similar, I can tell you that this one absolutely did nothing to solve my ground loop problem.

I hope you find some resolution, sorry I can’t give more specific help but the problem (if it is with the polyend) may only truly be resolved by attempting some kind of warranty exchange. If you find that from other people’s accounts that all tracker devices have a similar issue, it may be a more difficult process to resolve this seemingly small isue.

birdster · 2023-11-15T17:18:59.449Z

What an awesome post! Thank you very much for your time/ help and wise words!

I will try one of those basic isolators first, when I find a good one and some time for this.

Whenever I find a solution I’ll post it here.

Thank you again! It’s highly appreciated

birdster · 2023-11-18T18:32:48.976Z

Well,

I bought a basic ground loop isolator and yes, it’s better. Far from perfect, but a noticeable difference. The problem is not completely solved as a quiet humming still remains, but it’s not as obvious as before and a better foundation to work with, i guess.

I tried different settings and putting it into the Line-Input(!) of the Tracker seems to work “best”. Still, i feel like I need a second isolater to get rid of it completely.

This is the thing I got from Amazon for 12,99€

IMG_09651200×1200 20.2 KB

I will try if I can work around with some volume setting, to keep humming as low as possible. Otherwise I will try a second isolator in the future.

shigginpit · 2023-11-18T20:32:11.845Z

I have some pedals which are so noisy I run one on the input and one on the output. I question how much of the pedal’s inherent character I lose by doing this, but for the purposes of recording the difference is night and day. My Waldorf Rocket synth (also USB powered) is so unpleasantly full of unavoidable chatter in the audio, I have to use an isolator when recording it as well.

Anyhow, glad you were able to get some improvement. I don’t know if the same will be available in your Amazon marketplace, but I kept searching until I found a 2 for 1 deal, it only cost about a dollar more USD than the single unit. My impression of the in-line devices on Amazon is that most are the same and have just been rebranded by individual resellers. I’ll find a link to the one I bought, maybe you can search by brand and see if they run the same buy one/ get one offer.

It says Rngeo?

Amazon.com: 2 Packs Ground Loop Noise Isolator for Car Audio/Home Stereo System, Ground Loop Isolator with 3.5mm Audio Cable : Electronics

brand’s store link, maybe you can search and see if it’s valid for your market as well:
Amazon.com : Rngeo

birdster · 2023-11-18T21:07:33.295Z

As problematic as the whole USB-powered thing seems to be, it is kinda reassuring that apparently it is a more common thing than I thought and that I’m not the only one.

Thank you for sharing the links! Yeah, they seem to deliver to Germany. Gonna bookmark it, in case shit hits the fan.

(Also, I checked their store… I’m absolutely into this gadget already, haha.)

IMG_1559828×1252 119 KB

shigginpit · 2023-11-18T21:29:22.461Z

That’s actually kind of awesome lol people would probably strain their necks trying to see what was under the little umbrella.

birdster · 2024-03-23T19:44:33.712Z

Although not really being a huge fan of Teenage Engineering, I have to say that this cable solved my humming problem completely!!

thomann.de

Teenage Engineering Field Audio Cable 2×63 mm

Teenage Engineering Field Audio Cable Field Audio Cable 2×63 mm; geschirmtes Audiokabel mit schmalen Steckern; 3,5mm Stereoklinke auf 2×6,3mm Monoklinke; Steckerfarbe: Weiss; Länge: 1,2 m; Farbe: Grau

The ground loop isolator helped a lot, but now it’s perfect even without the isolator

waftlord · 2024-03-23T19:53:56.405Z

In which part of the chain?

shigginpit · 2024-03-23T19:54:09.769Z

Thanks for updating your original topic with the solution, price is not out of control either!

I assume this was out of the tracker which was causing the problem, am I remembering that correctly?

birdster · 2024-03-23T22:12:19.139Z

@waftlord basically in the middle.

MD -> Tracker -> Digitone

I’ve never had any issues with humming and hissing using my usual cables. But as soon as I’d hooked up the Tracker in between my Elektron devices, the humming began.

@shigginpit Yeah, I think the price is fair, especially for having the TE branding on it, haha. And yes, the Tracker was playing the main role in this situation… I’m not an expert at all, but from all the information I’ve gathered on the internet, the USB-power input seems to be troublemaker…?