Direct out vs recorder monitoring = sound doubled / phasing effect

Hi Elektronauts,

I am using the Octa as a looper for my guitar and synth, both are plugged on AB and CD inputs. I use the direct out on mixer main page in order to heard what I play and make my solos.

But I use also the recorder to loop some parts/riff I like, during my performance. So I set up recorder of tracks 1 to 4, with INAB = A B (other are off), and recorder of tracks 5 to 8 with INCD = C D (other are off). Each tracks are loaded with flex machines attached to its recorder corresponding : Track 1 = flex with recorder 1 loaded, and so on.

When I start a recorder during my performance, I hear a unwanted phasing effect, due to (I suppose) the mixing of the direct out signal and the monitoring/playback signal of the track recorder.

How can I disable the recorder monitoring ? I tested using mute track, it works but it’s not convenient cause I should unmute my track just after the end of recording … quite hard while playing the guitar.

Thank you for your help !

Not quite following your exact situation but you might try the DELAY COMPENSATE feature in the INPUT settings… From the manual:

DELAY COMPENSATE will when activated introduce a very short delay to the audio
signal listened to via the DIR setting. If for example an audio signal is listened to
through both the DIR input and a Thru machine/Pickup machine, both signals will
then be in sync. If DELAY COMPENSATE would have been deactivated in the
above scenario, the delay caused by the internal processing would make the audio
signal routed to the Thru/Pickup machine play a few milliseconds later than the DIR
signal. The combined DIR and Thru/Pickup signal would then exhibit a slightly
phased sound.

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Hi. I use Flex + Recordings too. I set DIR to 0.
To hear directly what you record and avoid playback stops you have to disable Timestretch. Hope it’s what you expect.

Thank’s for your answer, I completely miss this info on the manual … I’ll try it tomorrow, but seems to be the solution.

Merci (:slight_smile:) for your answer, but I need to use the DIR on main mixer, in order to play over the rest of the tracks and instruments. I prefer to work that way instead of using a dedicated track for playback. My workflow is quite strange …

Anyway, I will test your advise if necessary.

Yep. In that case, delay compensation should work, but maybe you’ll have a level difference with your recording…
I don’t remember if you still have Ehx 45000 ?

Yes I still have EHX45k, but I don’t use it for my current projet with a friend. I prefer use the OCTA for all the effects, LFO, and live remixing possibilities. My friend is playing with TR8 and VOLCA, so I can focus more on my guitar and ultranova playing thru OCTA. :blush:

2 Likes

I finally found time to test the delay compensation. It’s clearly better, no phasing effect, but as Sezare said, I still have the volume “doubled”.

I really don’t know what is the solution, it would be nice to be able to disable the monitoring during flex recording :confused:

One problem is that I need to use the DIR in mixer in order to hear me. I always sample/loop my instruments on several tracks.

Do you use Rec Setup 2 settings and Pickups for Rec Monitoring ? EDIT, not sure.

Do you use a foot controller ? Volume pedal could help.

If you move left your trig with microtiming you may not hear you recording while playing,

Hi !

I don’t use Pickups cause I am slave on octa … so not convenient for my use.

For the moment I don’t use a foot controller, but I could use my FCB1010 if necessary.

I am not sure to understand the microtiming trig, cause when the loop is playing back on the next start, it will be out of sync ?

I’ve tested other solutions today :

  • mute track while recording : OK, no sound doubled but hard to unmute in time without sound cut.
  • mute direct (on mixer) and use playback of track during recording : nice sound (cause it exactly what it is recording) but not convenient too. I must play direct the good “stuff” without hearing me before.

I can show how I use the octa and the problem on this video :

  • at 00:33 : I record a bass sound with my ultranova, the sound is changing during the recording and back to “normal” after
  • at 01:28 : I record the guitar, same shit.
    EDIT : at 05:30 : I record the guitar on track 2, but the track is muted, no doubled sound BUT I forgot it was muted, and I almost miss the “break” …
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohx1aSb5vxc

Can’t watch it tonight (debate :wink:).
I hope we’ll find the right answer for you, cause it can be mine too ! I’ve worked on it, but I’m away from it for the moment.
Did you read that french AF thread ?
(Hoping there’s a least one interesting thing for you) :wink:
http://fr.audiofanzine.com/sequenceur-sampleur/elektron/octatrack/forums/t.629701,p-dub-aborted,post.9003901.html

Hahaha that fcking debate …

I already looked at the AF thread, but I don’t want to overdub the flex machines (I found it impossible too …), I just record flex one time and overwrite it if necessary to change.

I edited my previous post cause there is an exemple of flex recording with track muted (not planned :slight_smile: )

Did you try Pickups with GAIN ? (OT slave)
There’s the DIR AB parameter in REC SETUP 2.
What is the master ?
@Open_Mike, as a looping guitarist you may have an personal answer about the original question ? :wink:

There’s probably a few ways around this…
I mainly use pickups and have OT as master so my techniques won’t work. I don’t have time to think too much about this right now but I have a few ideas…
Switch to different pattern with record trigs but no play trigs, sequential change back to where there’s play trigs…
Use 1/2 scale and set one shot recorder trig on step 1 and playback at step 33, sample set to loop…
Probably better methods but no time to ponder, I’lll check back…

2 Likes

Thanks guys for your help.

@sezare56 : I don’t use pickup, is not very convenient for me.

@Open_Mike : Plenty of interesting solutions here :slight_smile: I didn’t take time to test all, but thank you ! I wrote it on my workbook :wink:

I finally found a convenient solution for me :

  • First : I forgot that we can select only a track on the record setup 1 … When I rediscovered this :open_mouth:
  • I use now thru machines on T1 (for the guitar) and T5 (for my ultranova)
  • I use T2 to T4 with SCR3 set on T1
  • T6 to T8 with SCR3 set on T5

And : IT WORKS ! I “lost” 2 tracks, but works well, I don’t have anymore doubling effect, even if the tracks are unmute.

I will use this setup for my live Saturday :slight_smile: After that, I will try to patch my foot controller to have more controls :slight_smile:

Thank you all !

3 Likes

Its good you have things sorted, but perhaps some ideas for some other time:
If you don’t use the cue outputs for anything else you could route several tracks to the cue output and then set SRC3 to cue out to get around the 1 track in recording page limitation.

Also, you can sample to a recording buffer and play it back on an other track. So you could use DIR for monitoring, have your recording track always muted and then play the recording on an un-muted track.

2 Likes

I have the same problem. I solved it as follows: I assign each Flex INAB (or INCD) to record and SRC: CUE. (I don’t have anything in the CUE output) And that way I don’t listen to the dubbing with the track open (without mute). It’s weird but that’s how I solved it.
I also use an external mixer, not DIR on OT