Digitone program changes(to razzmatazz)

ElectricBear · 2024-03-10T12:21:27.018Z

Hi all,

I have a gig in 4 weeks which I’m really happy about, but I’m running into a major problem.

I’m having troubles with program changes(midi out) on the Digitone and I can’t seem to find a solution to it.

In recent gigs I always had multiple little setups which I used as decks like a dj and would go from one to the other.
I want to approach it differently this time, with just one project(on DN) containing all the songs and patterns I want to use.

The problem is that changing patterns on the DN also changes the preset on the razzmatazz. I want this to happen when I move to another song, but I want to keep the same preset on the razzmatazz when I move to a different pattern in the same song.

I’ve setup the channel, bank and program parameters, but the pattern change takes over every time.
I’ve also tried to p-lock the midi settings on the 1st trig of the pattern, but no result there either.

Anyone got an idea are some tips to get this to work? Is it possible?

Any help would be much appreciated!

alechko · 2024-03-10T14:50:55.924Z

maybe clone the presets on razzmatazz to match the patterns of the songs?
waste of presets space for sure but maybe just for the gig and if you don’t find any other solution…

btw you should be able to send PC from a midi track, maybe try normal trig rather with a condition

bibenu · 2024-03-10T14:55:19.015Z

ElectricBear:

The problem is that changing patterns on the DN also changes the preset on the razzmatazz.

I don’t have a digitone but, can you not just stop the Digitone from sending program change in the midi config ? It’s there in the config on my model:cycles, so I would guess the more expensive box would allow it.

Or have I misunderstood ?

alechko · 2024-03-10T15:01:00.670Z

yeah exactly, once you turn off the PROG CH SEND from the global midi setup you should be able to use the one on the midi tracks, I think that if you have both ON then it might overlap and if you use 1st trig then they sent together and the global midi wins, so turn off the PROG CH SEND and use the one on the midi tracks, you can use normal trig too because it shouldn’t matter if the PC sent to the same preset every X trigs…

image1230×672 96.9 KB

or maybe for these you can also try the BANK/SBANK params with the PROG?

ElectricBear · 2024-03-10T16:54:11.778Z

@alechko & @bibenu Thanks for the replies!!

Just got home again and I’ll try the suggestions out asap.
Think I’ve already tried setting the global prog change off but not with a trig, so I’m gonna try that one out first.

ElectricBear · 2024-03-10T18:05:53.173Z

It doesn’t work.

Once I set it manually to the required preset/program it stays there between the patterns that are setup the same way, but coming from another pattern with a different prog. it doesn’t switch.

Sometimes there’s a hick up where it plays the preset number that matches the pattern number on the digitone for an instance and then switches to the preset it should go to, but most of the time it doesn’t do anything.

I’m using prog 121 on the Digitone and when I dial it manually from 121 to 120 it suddenly starts to play 121. Setting it back to 121, 121 keeps playing.

I have to conclude that midi implementation regarding program changes on the razzmatazz just sucks.

I never had this issue with any other gear and I’m constantly sequencing other gear with my Elektron"s so…

(4 days left to send it back to Thomann…think it’s gonna have to go…it’s a shame, I love most other features and the sound and size of it, but it’s killing my workflow…)

alechko · 2024-03-10T18:09:09.586Z

so maybe there’s just an offset of 1? for 120 you need to do 121 and so on?

oh wait…

Once enabled, the presets are mapped to
program changes in alphabetical order. The first preset in alphabetical order will be
mapped to the lowest MIDI Program Change number for your MIDI Controller. If
you want a specific mapping, we recommend you rename the presets to match
your needs.

wwwhhhaaat? you need to sort them alphabetically? wth?
I guess you need to name the presets with 1,2,3 etc for consistent response from PC message
like 1kick, 2chat, 3ohat, etc…

ElectricBear · 2024-03-10T18:29:51.089Z

Yeah I’m aware of this.
Strange thing is all factory presets are numbered, so I just named my preset 121 so it sits just after the last factory preset 120.

Don’t think theres’s an offset.

It seems to work now , but not flawlessly. (after being in sleep mode for a short time)
Haven’t changed anything since the previous reply.

I’m switching to another preset(126) now where bank and sbank are off and it works fine, but going back to the 121 preset bank and sbank need to be on or it doesn’t work.

A lot of strange behavior if you ask me…

bibenu · 2024-03-10T20:02:34.660Z

Bit hesitant to post this, not owning a digi box so I could be completely off-track, but isn’t there some issue about the digis not always sending the pc, like, if it encounters pc 121 in a pattern, and the last pc it sent was 121, then it doesn’t send another one.

~~If I’m talking complete rubbish let me know and I’ll delete the post to avoid future confusion.~~

EDIT: Okay, so now I’ve had an opportunity to search, seems my memory on this wasn’t too far off … it’s a known problem on Digitakt at least.

Digitakt as brain: program change sending

Program Changes do work.
You can’t send the same PC consecutively, that’s the only (main?) problem. Workaround is to send a different one before resending a PC.

Kpucski · 2024-03-10T20:09:57.862Z

@ElectricBear, you could try reaching out to @KF6GPE he might be able to shed some light. I believe he works with 1010.

ElectricBear · 2024-03-10T21:03:17.003Z

@bibenu don’t know about this issue. I know about pc’s being send a bar to late between digi’s.
Speaking of which…it seems to work somehow right now, but the change of the razz is late. Don’t know if it’s digitone or the razz or both?

@Kpucski Thanks for the tip and tagging @KF6GPE, but I don’t know if it can get any better than it is right now. It sure isn’t perfect, but maybe it’s workable. Gonna have to choose my transitions wisely I guess …

I’m a lot closer to where I want to be then before I started this topic, so I like to thank everyone who contributed to this!

Other tips and suggestions are still welcome of course.

KF6GPE · 2024-03-10T22:06:18.671Z

Sorry I didn’t see this sooner — been traveling & visiting family. Anyway, good for the tag.

That’s really weird.

I have not heard of this — but do not have any Elektron hardware with which to test. I’ll ask a couple folks at work this week and see if anyone has hardware to try to reproduce it. Not to pass the buck, but did you post on the 1010music forum, too? There might be a user or two there that can offer some suggestions.

Oh, yeah, and most importantly, congrats & good luck at the gig!!

ElectricBear · 2024-03-10T22:27:35.535Z

Hey,

You don’t have to apologize for not seeing this earlier.

Glad you are taking it to work and will try to figure it out with the help from some colleagues.

I made a post on the 1010music forum before I made this one, but haven’t had any response over there.

KF6GPE:

congrats & good luck at the gig

Thanks! looking forward to it.

KF6GPE · 2024-03-11T01:20:21.575Z

ElectricBear:

Glad you are taking it to work and will try to figure it out with the help from some colleagues.

I made a post on the 1010music forum before I made this one, but haven’t had any response over there.

Excellent, thanks! Hopefully someone has some words of advice. I (asynchronously) asked one of the other folks who is more Elektron-saavy than I am, too, and hopefully I learn something there.