External sequencing of notes with internal sequencing of parameter changes

Elektron Gear Digitakt
#1

dear all,

being brand new to this forum and the digitakt, i’d be gracious for a small quickstart on the device… i have two basic questions – maybe someone can help :slight_smile:

  1. polyphony
    how do i do it? i’ve managed to receive notes from an external sequencer and on 8 channels (ergo 8 tracks of the DT) simultaneosly. as soon as i send chords on one of them, they remain monophonic.

  2. sequencing parameters internally while receiving notes externally
    is it doable? can i use DT’s midi-clocked internal sequencer to only change parameters, while notes are being fed externally?

thanks a ton <3

#2
  1. Mono samples yes, but is the output Polyphonic?

That what you’re looking for?

#3

Polyphony: single tracks are strictly monophonic. So you can only simulate polyphony by using multiple tracks with the same sound configured, but different MIDI channels set.

But you need some external tooling like a midi processor to distribute the notes of a chord to the different MIDI channels.

#4

  1. As mentioned above by @tnussb, polyphony is not directly available on the Digitakt, to achieve this behavior you would need Max MSP or a RetroKit-002 cable, it’s 40€ and it dispatches the MIDI data from your controller to different channels. Right now all of your channels are receiving the last note that was played. (By the way if you want to control different tracks with the same controller, you can change the default MIDI channel in Settings > MIDI Config > Channels)

  2. I was going to say yes but I’m not sure anymore! It’s definitely possible to have parameter automations without notes on the DT, but I think the incoming notes won’t be affected by these, I’m not too sure… (gotta go to bed now but I will check tomorrow if you didn’t get your answer)

#5

1. There’s no polyphony on the Digitakt. The 8 tracks are monophonic, unlike the Digitone where the 4 tracks share up to a total of 8 voices playing at once, and have settings regarding unison and voice stealing modes. The Digitakt is strictly monophonic on all tracks unless you do a bit of MIDI hacking which I believe was covered in depth by Loopop on YouTube using RetroKits gear.

If you’re speaking of MIDI, MIDI Out on the DT can send up to 4 note polyphony per TRACK… If you set up two tracks with the same channel, you can get 8 note polyphony, etc… but beware of MIDI loops.

2. Yes you can do this via trigless locks (pressing FUNC+TRIG# while laying down a trig). This will cause the parameters to change but will not trig the sample itself… Therefore if you’re playing on a Digitakt’s track channel with an external keyboard, it should work to where if you lay down a trigless lock and are playing when the lock comes around you will hear its affect on what you’re playing.

Take this with a grain of salt though, it should work in theory, but I’ve never tried it myself. This does work even on external hardware synths using DT’s MIDI Out.

#7

thanks all of you for your quick help! really, really appreciate it! so:

  1. polyphony
    oh no! :persevere: – please tell me all this is not true!
    i’ve been reading up on the digitakt so much before (luckily just) borrowing it from a friend – must have misunderstood the 4-fold polyphony, as it seems to only be available for the midi-tracks (thus sending chords our via midi)… aww, too bad.

ok, well – i’m good with max/msp… have implemented various channel-cycling-approaches and shift-registers for other gear, but this leads me to a next question:

having ~4 identical tracks to for instance play a 4-fold polyphonic chord, is there any way to “link” or “sync” these tracks as for their parameters? considering i may want to change the length of a(ll) sample(s) ( now obviously on 4 tracks) – any way to do this?

  1. sequencing parameters internally while receiving notes externally
    thank you very much, Birth_Chord – i will give this a shot as of now. beyond that – are you aware of any way to (live-)record trigless locks? i would love to record a (knob-)performance while receiving note-data externally

thanks again and again!

Pattern change digitone and a4 from octatrack
#8

ok… gave it my shot – unfortunately this doesn’t seem to work. trigless locks are ignored when notes are sequences externally :frowning:

#9

So why not use the most powerful aspect of the Digitakt… The sequencer?

If you want to live record trigless locks… Get another Elektron device lol… I think perhaps your expectations are just a bit high for the machine… It’s one of the most popular devices out right now for good reason, don’t get bogged down behind perceived limitation, many people make beyond excellent music with it.

Edit:

Ok you want to perform parameter changes with knobs, record those value changes live, while the sequence is playing? Sorry if I misread but yes that’s a basic function of these boxes, press the record button and play button at the same time and twiddle knobs to your hearts content.

Be sure to save right before you do that… Then when you’re done twiddling or when that section is over, you just press FUNC+NO and it’ll instantly reload the pattern as you saved it. Excellent for live performance.

When you press REC+PLAY and record a parameter performance, press the REC button again and you will see the whole grid is filled up with yellow trigs (trigless trigs)

#10

hehe :slight_smile: i looove sequencers… ever since i’ve released polyrhythmus, i have been working on a sort-of standalone (well… embedded system-) sequencer that does loads of fun stuff and that i’d like to stick to. that being said, i’m nonetheless fascinated as for how intuitive and “musical” DT’s sequencing works. excited to try an OT at some point.

i have no doubt about that! it’s just a workflow-thing i guess…

my luxury-problem being, that i only want to record the knob-performance, while my notes are (continously) received from an external sequencer. as soon as i PLAY+REC, the (incoming) notes are tracked in DT’s the sequencer, too.

once again, really appreciate your help! <3

#11

Incoming midi overrides the internal sequencer. So while in theory it may be possible to do what your asking, if you do something like play a note externally on the exact step of your internal plocks, the plocks will not trigger.

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#12

You have to understand that recording parameter changes is not continuous (as it would be in the analog domain). This isn’t an analog machine with analog recording.

I just did what you said doesn’t work. I recorded parameter changes (knobs only) on the device, and then played separately from an external keyboard and the parameter changes were represented in what I played. Trigless locks ARE NOT ignored when sequenced externally.

The parameter changes are stepped. So say you go from value 1 to value 200 over the course of trigs 1 - 8 during a sequence. Well only 8 of those values are going to be saved because it’s stepped, not continuous. Therefore what you hear is not represented via recording as opposed to what you hear while you’re performing it, where the output is digitally continuous.

If it recorded analog/continuously variable changes, there would be no logical purpose for trig keys, because there would be an infinite number of values. Once you record the parameter changes, you can hold down a trigless lock to see what the value is, the colors become inverted. When you look from one trigless lock to the next, you will see the difference in sound between when the trigless locks change parameters, and there is no in between.

Unless they added a sort of parameter portamento in a future update.

Also, from the manual :

Up to 72 different parameters can be locked in a pattern. A parameter counts as one (1) locked parameter no matter how many trigs that lock it. If for example the cutoff parame-ter of the filter is locked on every sequencer step, there are still 71 other parameters that can be locked.

Edit 2 : Thread about this. Consider putting in a Feature Request on the Digitakt forum. I know this is about the Digitone but the same concept applies.

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Pattern change digitone and a4 from octatrack
#13

this appears to be happening for parameter changes, too… all incoming notes seem to be set to a track’s initial parameter-settings (if that makes any sense), generally overriding ones that are trigless.

i’m aware of that, yes. still i can not reproduce:

the behaviour of the trigless steps seems erratic – their settings only seem to apply occasionally; possibly when a(n incoming) note falls precisely on or around that step. i have tried this with and without midi syncing the DT. in the following video (sorry for the rotation), i’ve

  1. disabled external clock on the DT
  2. setup various trigless steps on a track
  3. … i am sequencing externally

i can’t seem to retrace what exactly is happening :slight_smile: – anyhow it’s not what i wish for.

#14

Interesting, not sure what the issue is. Being as it’s a digital machine there is essentially no difference in triggering a sample via pressing a track button on the Digitakt vs. sending a signal from a button doing the same thing the button on the Digitakt does.

And just as a further example if you haven’t seen this, head to around 6:35… Again, if he did this while receiving MIDI notes it’d record the notes. However for me, pressing play without any MIDI notes being sent and recording trigless trigs, then sequencing it externally, works exactly the same as how he’s doing it here.

#16

mhmhm… in the video, it seems as if the notes/steps are not recorded externally but input on the DT’s sequencer (4:33), or am i mistaking? am i getting you right that it works for you to do the same with external notes, only playing / sequencing the trigless locks?

i wonder if it does have anything to do with how tight the DT syncs (or how quantized incoming notes are to a 24 / 48 PPQ grid). would love to get some insight from the elektron folks on this – maybe i can e-mail them.

#17

Yes I just did it again. Tested at different BPM as well. I uploaded a video to Dropbox but you could barely hear it because I only have headphones hooked up right now and recorded it by shoving my phone against the ear. Tested it at 30BPM for obvious emphasis on transition between trigless locks and 150BPM to see if it could keep up. Both worked fine and just as if I played it on the device itself… It’s all software, it could very well just be a bug. I did it on my Digitone but I’ve owned both and they’re from the same brain, so if it isn’t working for you I’d contact Elektron and let them know.

Regarding the quantized notes, I had mine synced together (Digitone receiving MIDI notes from Octatrack) but based on the fact both devices can record "unquantized"trigs, which are really just trigs with microstep applied, I’m not sure how accurate you really have to be. I turned my devices off for the night but it’d be interesting to check if trigless locks can be microstepped…

#18

thanks so much, i really appreciate your investigations, as this feature is somewhat my show deal or no deal :slight_smile:

Regarding the quantized notes, I had mine synced together (Digitone receiving MIDI notes from Octatrack)

when you say “synced together” – are you implying that DT was receiving notes and midi-clock from the OT? if the later applies, how did you sync it? via a normal midi-cable? and if so, did you set the devices to turbo-clock (which for my understanding doubles the clock-resolution)?

thanks again!

#19

When I used trigless locks on external devices with the Digitakt (sending specific CCs) that’s when it got finicky, locking my Peak or OB-6 was as you said previously, sporadic. I’m not here to make you sell or keep the device, I sold mine recently. Just trying to help and also learn more myself.

No turbo mode here as I didn’t have both going into the other.

I just had Octatrack -> Quadra Thru box (just a bunch of thru ports from one out) -> One thru port to Digitone in. So almost like the Digitone was second in a daisy chain. Didn’t have any problems, but at 30BPM you reall hear that stepping…

IMO the solution to your problem is either get an Octatrack made for performance sampling, or some other external gear to help with it, or resample the Digitakt’s internals as you perform your parameter tweaks and set up the new sample prior to a performance.

That is, if this can’t manage to be worked out/is a bug… and bugs are a no-go for performances.

#20

thanks again for your help… i’ll be contacting elektron and keep this thread updated

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#21

Don’t know about Digitone but this has been reported before for Digitakt and Analogs. This thread makes me want to test again but I feel like I did some time ago on AR. As far as I know at least on AR incoming midi notes override trigs and lock trigs on the internal sequencer and the midi notes will use the current edit page settings and not the locks, only lock trigs on steps where midi notes don’t land will apply, as @jefones suggested…


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