Digitakt to Deluge

The Lounge Other Gear
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Nearly five years since I bought the Digitakt and started my synth/Elektron journey, but am sad to say I think I’ve outgrown it. A few things that have progressed from bugbears to actual problems: lack of song mode (I know, I know, but it’s made it really difficult to perform on stage as I want as I’m the singer in my band), limited midi capabilities, lack of a synth engine, lack of timestretch, lack of stereo sampling… You get the idea. All the classic problems people talk about. I know some of these issues have workarounds but let’s be honest, it’s just not ideal to assign LFO to the start position and get super mathematical to find a workaround for timestretching, and the sample oscillators for synths don’t cut it.

I found a good deal on an MPC Live and am using that at the moment, but don’t like the workflow and having to do so much on the screen. It’s sucked all the fun out of writing and I really miss the Elektron workflow (which is why I haven’t yet sold the Digitakt to cover the cost of the MPC Live as I meant to!) – so I’m looking for something else.

I had heard of the Deluge but not looked into it properly as the interface looked so scary, but after doing some digging it looks pretty much like the perfect replacement for the Digitakt. I particularly really like the look of the live capabilities on assigning FX to tracks or the song, sort of similar to how the fader is used on the Octatrack. (I did consider Octatrack but in many ways it seemed a step down from the DT in terms of immediacy and workflow, and there’s no way I can afford an OT and an Analog Rytm combined, which seems to offer the best alternative to Deluge/MPC.) Deluge is also a really nice size, and the fact in can be powered by a 9v power supply is also great.

The main thing I can imagine missing from the DT is the assignable LFOs on samples, especially on the sample slot. One of my favourite things to do on the DT is stick trigs down on each step, modulate LFO on the sample slot and a second LFO on amp volume to create a crazy glitchy rhythm. Does anyone have any experience with moving from DT to Deluge, and is there anything else they miss from the DT?

Also if someone could reassure me that Elektron will bring out a device this year that could compete with the MPC line or Synthstrom, that would be even better! Haha. But unfortunately it feels like Elektron will continue going down the path of lots of small and limited boxes to push us into buying them all. If money was no object…

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Hmm, Elektron make focussed boxes not all in one grooveboxes, although they can be used like that, it is not what they are best at.

So if you want a fully featured groovebox then you don’t tend to get the immediacy simply because they have more features.

I have a Deluge and MPC One, neither are nowhere as fast to use as Elektron gear, how could they be with more tracks, more features, more operating tasks to remember? Both are great boxes but very different from Elektron.

Deluge is fast for composing, but it has other limitations - you could use it to sequence and sample your DT which might give you the best of both worlds?

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tempting as that is it does seem overkill for my purposes! not sure I could afford to keep both…

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Long post:

The Deluge is pretty neat and I’d say 4 years ago it was probably the best thing in its class. Now there’s quite a bit more stuff out there that competes with it in different ways.

I’ve had the Deluge since 2018, for reference. I loved it then sold it for an MPC Live which I regretted and then eventually bought a second one before the price increase.

I’ll start with the good:
The arranger is excellent, one of the best, if not the best, of any gear that isn’t just a DAW replacement (Akai Force, Maschine+).

The form factor is great. It’s smaller than you’d expect, significantly smaller than an MPC Live or Live 2. The battery lasts about 6 or more hours. It’s light weight. It’s a great travel groove box. It’s not so small like the OP-Z where it can feel fiddly but it’s not so large that it’s unwieldy.

The workflow is pretty great. I think it’s super quick and most of the parameters can be accessed on the front panel with a shift command. Everything is ordered in vertical rows by type and it all seems pretty logical. That said the print is fairly small and in low light settings it’s especially hard to read.

The QWERTY keyboard they added is excellent and the quickest I’ve managed to name presets, projects, or samples on a device. Especially quicker than an MPC with the touchscreen.

And now the bad:

First and most obvious is the display screen. I don’t know why they chose to go with a clock display when LCDs and AMOLED displays are fairly cheap. Seeing only 4 letters and many of them hardly even look like the written form of a letter, just feels very clumsy. And then you throw in the fact that you’re gonna have folders with sub folders to try and manage samples… It could have easily been rectified with a proper display. Then there’s thing like envelopes and LFOs that are only represented by a number from 0 to 50. I don’t necessarily need to know what my LFO shape physically looks like but it would have gone a ways to be more accessible if it showed those shapes as how it is, it’s definitely not beginner friendly.

The sound. I honestly am not impressed by the sound of the thing. Everything from the FX to the Synth Engines, to even the sample playback (I don’t know if it’s just me but even the samples sound flatter than a Digitakt). I don’t like how there’s not enough controls for the effects. Reverb has the size and length of the reverb on one setting, delay has no options for dotted or triplet notes, the distortion types are all one knob, and the modulation effects (chorus, flanger, and phaser) are all in mono not stereo. It’s just not really inspiring to work with the effects to the degree that I’d say you’re gonna want to use the Deluge as a rough basis for your track and then export the dry tracks to a DAW and finish there, or simple use the Deluge to record other gear but then you’re missing a lot of functionality.

Per step automation isn’t as deep as Elektron gear where on Elektron gear basically every parameter can be modulated, not so much the case on the Deluge, it’s really just the stuff that’s listed up top and you can reassign all those knobs but you’ll only have access to those 10 or so parameters.

Finally, sampling is pretty mediocre. For one, the button combos are a little odd, especially for live looping, but also you can’t slice like you’d probably want. You can only slice based on how many slice points you want and it’ll slice samples in even slices (so, grid based slicing). Honestly most of the times on the Octatrack I use grid based slicing but having the option to put slices where I want is not a crazy request, even 20 years ago.

All in all, it’s not a bad device. It’s a jack of all trades. Basically anything that’s a dedicated device is gonna be better than it. You want a deep and grid based sequencer? The Hapax has a similar workflow and does more with midi effects and automations. You want a portable and powerful sequencer sampler and great sounding device? The Dirtywave M8 or even OP-Z has you covered there. You want synth sounds? Literally any synthesizer is better. You want a sampler that sounds great and does chopping and cost less? SP-404 MK2.

It’s just really hard for me to find a role for the Deluge and I know part of that is cuz I have way too much shit and a lot of that overlaps, but if the Deluge sounded great it would be easier to slot but I would take the Digitakt with its limitations over the Deluge if I had to make a choice simply because it sounds so damn good.

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Actually, I don’t. As a singer in a band, why are you using any attention intensive equipment in the first place? Why wouldn’t you choose a more playable instrument that allows more of a flow state such as guitar, bass, keyboard etc?

Those who can do lead vocals and play a drum set effectively are a true marvel and infrequent. If something as complicated as a groove box/sampler/etc is your focus, can you hand off lead singing to another member?

If lead singing is the focus, can the manipulation of a groove box/sampler be handed off to another band member? Perhaps an additional band member needs to be added? Should the groove box/sampler tasks be prerecorded and run as a base layer so that the other elements can be focused on?

lastly, how will adding additional features the DT currently lacks - more midi functionality, added synth engines and the like free up physical and mental resources to enable a better performance?

Perhaps some thought should be put into removing elements from the performance to streamline the load rather than adding to it? I’m not sure if its the correct answer, but worth thinking about. Good luck with whatever you choose.

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I think the OP meant the lack of song mode being an issue on stage. I could very well be wrong though.

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I simply wanted to thank you all for this discussion! For me as a DT owner the interface of the Deluge has a huge “must have” attraction. I like it a lot! But it’s good that these questions are raised and such differenciated views are shared. :+1:

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As someone else has pointed out, it’s the lack of song mode that’s the key issue here. I’ve been lining up patterns and banks up til now, which is OK, but constrains my movement on stage a little. Always funny when I have to run halfway across the stage to line up the next sequence.

We could get an extra member, but that’s maybe something for the next album.

Re the additional/lacking features, that’s to do with writing the songs. I do most of the arranging in the box and have it mapped out for live performances, though it’s always nice to have some parameters I can control. It’s why I’ve been leaning towards OT or Deluge, as I could arrange the sequences in the box and then use the crossfader/brass knobs for scene changes/FX risers etc.

It’s also worth noting that the DT can totally be used like a guitar or keyboard while singing – sequence in the patterns and then control the parameters, move between sequencers, shape the filter, and so on. It’s just I prefer to have my hands free.

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For live performance specifically I’d say look at the Octatrack or even Maschine+. Though I can’t fully recommend the Maschine+ cuz I personally had some issues with stability but that was over a year ago, I ordered another one and am hoping it’s significantly better

This video shows lock states which are essentially preset modulations that you can create yourself and have them morph between or change instantly.

I know it looks like an MPC and might seem like it will have that same vibe but it feels much more hands on due to most functions having dedicated buttons, there’s less menu diving, less confirmation window pop ups. I personally thing the synth engines and drum synths and effects that Native Instruments has come up with are far better than what’s on the MPC and the workflow is much quicker to me.

Worth checking out for live performance, the Maschine+ has had its hiccups but it’s much more powerful in what it allows you to do than the MPC.

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Wow – this is super helpful! Thanks v much for taking the time to write this all out. Lots to think about. I definitely know already that I’ll miss the detail the DT has with p-locks and LFOs, and the UI is just so good on that thing. But there’s stuff on the Deluge like the unison that just seem so helpful for making things sound instantly better. Tbh though it will mainly be needed for arranging and sequencing midi – the synth engine isn’t that important as I have a Minilogue XD, Minitaur, BSII… Might have to sell some(thing) though, depending on what I get.

I’m familiar with the Pyramid but not the Hapax so thanks for introducing me to that! Just discovered the M8 only the other day as well and it looks great, but a bit finicky and lacking in knobs. What are your thoughts on OT for my purposes? It does improve on DT for midi sequencing as I understand and has a song mode(?), but I’ve heard it’s quite dated in other regards compared with the DT.

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Yeah tbh I’ve overlooked Maschine because of it looking so much like an MPC but will take a look. Love Red Means Recording. Will be interesting to see what he does with it.

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knock’s body language is revealing

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Unison has the same issue that the modulation effects have… it’s mono. Compared to a Hydrasynth or peak where unison can help spread the sound out it just ends up being really weak for a unison mode. I wouldn’t say it makes thing sound better and it’s definitely going to be more of a use case type thing, and it’s probably the worst iteration of a “unison” I’ve ever heard. Also, it can’t be assigned to the gold knobs up top.

I also have an Octatrack, for your purposes of a live device I would say it would be far better than a Delgue. The scenes and faded go a long way at helping you perform, you’ve got 3 LFOs per track plus an LFO designer, live looping… its definitely not as straight forward as the Digitakt but coming from the Digitakt to the Octatrack it shouldn’t be THAT hard. I would say the effects on the Octatrack sound better than what’s on the Deluge honestly.

But yeah, definitely watch some Maschine+. The work flow is a lot more hands on, its got better sounding effects than the deluge and MPC and there’s tons more options for modulation including per step automation.

Plus it just had the Auto Sampler from the MPC added to it so you wouldn’t have to bring your synths with you, you can do everything with just the Maschine.

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Man this is such a good write up. Really captures my struggles with the deluge. Even if I were to fully internalize all of the shortcuts etc, I think I’d be left dissatisfied with the sonic output of the thing. I even bought an analog heat specifically to get the deluge sounding good. It kind of works, but that’s a pretty expensive band aid.

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Any reason not to use a laptop and Ableton? If your goal is be able to set and forget backing tracks while onstage, Ableton ticks off all of the boxes you find wanting in your DT. You could still compose on the DT, then arrange ITB and off you go.

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Deluge is great in many ways. But if you’re used to Elektron, you’ll miss the hifi audio quality more than anything else if you go for Deluge.

You just can’t unhear Elektron quality once you’re exposed to it.

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I dont know,

I just stumbled upon this video and it sounds damn good, really nice warm deep textures.

Not sure how much you have to work the Deluge to sound like this though

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Haha, yes but do you see that analog heat there that costs almost as much as the deluge itself? Of course you can process it’s output in ways that will improve it, but then you’re committed to that setup.

The deluge is great in so many ways, and I can only speak for myself. The bottom line for me is that I’m not inspired by the sound that comes out of it, and as a result I have a hard time taking advantage of all of the great features. This is obviously subjective as hell, and for the longest time I’ve tried to just make myself get past it. But then I noticed (1) how many folks on forums like this feel the same way and (2) how many YouTube videos performing with the deluge also pair it with something like the AH.

Speaking of YouTube, anyone looking for inspiration to keep their deluge should check out Easy Tiger:

Really awesome work by someone who knows the deluge inside and out.

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i think AH does alot to the sound, but i believe that it wouldnt sound THIS good if it wasnt for the original waveforms it is processing.

i have heard stuff sound complete shit with the AH as well… shit in shit out as they say.

But to address your other points i fully understand where you´re coming from and honestly if using a device feels cumbersome it will feel uninspiring as hell to use it even if it sounds great (Hydrasynth for me!)

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I know it sounds superficial but I just don’t like having a laptop onstage. The MPC kinda feels like a laptop anyway, so I’d keep hold of that if I wanted that approach to playing live. It’s also a bit cumbersome and they can be super fragile. In terms of setting and forgetting, I want some performance functions as well – I know you can get around this with a Push, but then the setup is even more cumbersome. This is mainly why I’m drawn to the Deluge or Octatrack. I originally got the Digitakt to get away from my laptop for music. Also if my laptop breaks on tour I’m screwed haha.

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