Digitakt receiving inconsistent MIDI Clock from DAW

Elektron Gear Digitakt
#41

Ah?
I don’t use overbridge with my AK anymore (my RME audio drivers are so fast! :wink:), but I tried a lot of times with my band mate playing bass at the same time…evrytime i tried to software monitor his bass when the plugin was loaded in the session, we had substancial latency regardless the overbridge settings.
Maybe things have imporved already in the latest versions though.
In ableton i think we can see the plugin latency at the bottom of the “device view” when you hover the cursor on it… i’ll try again.

EDIT :slightly_smiling_face:

Screen Shot 2017-10-20 at 14_03_27

#42

no doubt. but $500+ to solve this issue is burning money. someone mentioned computers are a buzzkill, so is wasting cash lol

#43

This happens with my gear and FLStudio via a Focusrite Saffire Pro. It’s just the way of life.

#44

from my personal experience, Midi is quite inconsistent when it passes the daw boundaries…
A day it s working, the other it’s drifting… total headache. So 500 dollars became acceptable for me because I was really driving crazy with this!

Now That i bought a RME which is far more expensive than entry level interface.
now that i bought a 500€ multiclock…
Everything about audio relies on the RME drivers which are rock solid.
Midi sync also relies on my RME audio drivers thanks to the multiclock, so now it is also rock solid!
my mind is now free from those issues…god it was expensive But now I love my computer again for my music! :wink:

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#45

I feel you. I spent $200 on a MOTU MIDI interface in 2005, MOTU drivers are among best in business, zero clocking issues to this day in whichever DAW I choose.

I would recommend people use a multi in/out interface with any computer. Route MIDI within the interface’s virtual patch bay. If your MIDI interface doesn’t have a stand-alone mode, do not buy it! Avoid routing MIDI through Ableton to your external devices. If you can also avoid using USB MIDI for your external synths, instead use actual DIN cables into a central MIDI hub, you will have fewer issues. Try not to use MIDI THRU that much, unless you are just sending note on/note off on various channels to various devices. Tighter results if you have a dedicated MIDI port per synth.

#46

How would you not send clock from Ableton? Do you use it as slave?

#47

I don’t wanna get too deep into this topic, but I will say that the faster system and interface connection you have, and minimizing the audio latency by decreasing buffers and whatnot, can certainly make things seem tighter if your mixing software audio with outboard gear and monitoring it in different ways…

For example if you have something going through an analog mixer and your trying to sync it with something going through an interface and computer, regardless of jitter and clock accuracy the sync diifference will be much less if your going through a thunderbolt interface at 96k with a 32 buffer, than a usb interface a at 44 with a 256 buffer, simply because the mixer has no latency so the lower you get your audio latency the closer to it it will match…

In the above case, if you were to run the mixer outputs through the interface as well, the sync will be tighter because the mixer would then get the same software delay. At that point both interfaces would have similar sync, it wouldn’t matter that one is faster, what matters is that the mixer and the other gear get the same amount of delay…
Basically it’s important to consider the various degrees of audio latency different devices or monitoring situations have, tighten them up as much as possible, and take them into account when looking into clock offsets, track delays, and whatnot…

1 Like
#49

I sometimes run Ableton slaved to another DAW and use ReWire

#50

Please check innerclock or acme . This is what you need to avoid jitter :wink:

1 Like
#51

I use a Multiclock, it solved all my issues…

I was tolerating jitter for a long time but when I started releasing music and people started djing my music I realised that my jitter was messing with their mixing. I tried mixing my own music and it was impossible to completely lock onto the BPM because there were imperceptible fluctuations in the track speed that would mess up the mix.

I invested in the ERM and have seriously not looked back… and it only took me a couple of months to absorb the cost and forget about paying hundreds of dollars for a clock…

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#53

Heya! I just picked up a multiclock and still see jitter on my elektrons.

Right now I am setup in a simple configuration:

Channel 1 into my Analog RYTM using the VST plugin as the clock source with the RYTM only to accept clock & transport.

When I select the tempo button, the clock fluctuates between 122.9-123.1 (should be flat 123). Any thoughts one what I could b e doing wrong?

#54

It is not as flat as it would be if the multiclock was master, i mean not slaved to the computer in anyway…
Mine fluctuate also a little bit. I sometimes see +/-0.1 bpm. There are explainations regarding achievable precision on the manual i believe.

+/- 0.1 bpm seems acceptable, don’t you think?
I don’t notice any issue related to that fluctuation so far. Problems with synced tape delays of stuff like this?

2 Likes
#55

Perfectly normal to see minor visible fluctuation of midi clock on any slaved device.
You won’t hear it

6 Likes
#56

I tend to use the midi outs from the ERM and don’t rely on any through or out clock from my machines. So I can’t really comment on daisy chaining from the ERM, though I would suspect that the individual machines in the chain would add their own latency and jitter to the midi coming from the ERM.

I have an 8 way midi hub so can I split the midi from the ERM to all my machines. Ideally the one ERM clock is running each machine individually.

#57

Psychlone001 - I was hoping that the fluctuations would be less, but I guess I had high hopes. My goal here is to have my recordings as accurate as possible to the grid in my DAW (Ableton)

DJSM: That makes sense. I was kicking around the idea of picking up a through box and see if there is an improvement on my elektrons. Do you have any recommendations for a midi hub? Thanks for your response.

Thank you both for the response!

–Alex

#58

+/-0.1 is about as good as possible on a slaved device.
Like I said no need to worry, just play it you shouldn’t hear it?

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#59

I suppose. I’m more concerned with synchronizing my elektrons sequencer so that the audio for each hit 1/4 2/4 3/4 & 3/4 are locked in tight on the grid. So far from what I can tell is that I won’t be able to achieve this with the multi clock. There seems to be a fair amount of jitter there does appear to be an improvement.

#60

Sooo… :nerd_face:

Lets assume you work at 120 bpm, that is 60000/120 = 500ms per beat.

At 120.1 bpm you get 60000/120.1 = 499.58ms per beat.

Hypothesis : Lets say your clock goes to 120.1 bpm during 4 beats consequently to a drift, then comes back to 120 bpm.

You get a total of (500-499.58)×4 = 1.7ms offset which seems - if my hypothesis is validated by you :nerd_face: - quite acceptable to me! :wink:

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#61

I use a Kawai M8 8 way midi hub.

For the record. I sequence 9 hardware devices, and use no Ableton instruments in my set up. My ERM is triggered via audio from Ableton, which in turn triggers my 9 instruments through my Midi Hub. when I press record in Ableton everything starts in sync and stays in sync to my ear. I have recorded for an hour and have heard no audible jitter in my recordings. In fact I can cut from anywhere in a recording and it all sits perfectly when I paste it anywhere on the recording.

I have no idea why I didn’t buy an ERM earlier… all my recordings are grid tight…

I wouldn’t worry about movement on the sequencer display, its not going to effect your recordings or sync.

#62

Very interesting thread. This weekend I recorded my Digitakt via USB MIDI into Ableton. I went track by track and would turn on Ableton’s MIDI out sync to the Digitakt to start recording. I would also record 8 Bars early since my pattern was 128 total steps and I wanted to give the clock one run to sync. The audio came through a UAD Apollo twin. I started by making an adjustment to my latency based on the UAD’s reported latency of 8ms, but that seemed a little high and I ended up at -3. Not even sure if I did that right, but it seems close. I basically was looking at when beat 1 was hitting on bar 9 and adjusting based on that.

I noticed a jitter on the Digi as everyone mentions here. At 120 it would vary from 119.4 to about 120.4. Not a huge deal, but when I look at my WAVs and zoom in, they would be slightly on and off the grid and I would notice phasing when I played the digi in sync with the recorded take. I turned swing off from the digi so I could try and get the tracks as lined up as possible. Not optimal for me, since I like to put swing on the beats, but I am in testing stage still.

My questions - Will overbridge solve this jitter? If so, I can wait since it sounds like the WIN version is moving along pretty quickly and we should hopefully have it in a few months.

If the answer is no, what gear would I need? Not running MIDI through USB would be nice. I have 2 synths and a digitakt currently going into different USB slots on my PC plus I use a Keystep MIDI controller. The UAD has no MIDI in or out.

My optimal setup is to fire up Ableton Live and play either of my synths through the Keystep with tight sync. I currently use the Ableton External instrument plugin to do so, but if I could have everything locked to the ableton grid via a hub, that would be amazing. My main complication is that I am not sure what MIDI devices I need and if I need them.

For me, I do believe in rock solid timing. Coming from doing my work ITB, this was the norm and I do notice these little changes. It is annoying, but I think in dance music, it’s pretty important to get it as tight as possible. Warping the audio is my last resort.

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