Digitakt, Keystep 37, and piano sounds

pinwheel · 2023-11-14T19:10:32.521Z

Hi, folks!

(New on this forum, please go a bit easy on me. Excuse the length, I tried to format it for redabaility.) Quick context on “where I’m coming from”: I have no formal musical background, about a year ago, I slowly began to ‘tinker’ with music on my own. Example artists I’ve been listening more intensely (“neo classical”, ambient, minimal, melodic-electronic): Nils Frahm, Christian Löffler, Jon Hopkins, Hania Rani, Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Chihei Hatakeyama, to name a few.)

I own a Digitakt for more than a year now, and I must admit that haven’t yet explored its full potential yet (maybe I explored ~30% of it). I found it hard to visualize notes on Digitakt, and so I just got KeyStep 37, hoping it provides some relief. (I work in open source software development world, so I want to avoid computers / DAWs as much as I can, after work :-). Also I don’t own a Macbook, and Linux seems to be basically “not usable” in the DAW world without too much pain (read: “endless grief with technical issues”. A bit of a pity, for someone who dwells in the Linux world, but I digress.)

Back to my setup. I’ve just hooked up the KeyStep 37 w/ a MIDI cable to the Digitakt, and playing with various built-in sounds, the chromatic keyboard, etc. (It’s nice to visualize the notes this way, especially for a newbie who is yet to learn music theory.) A couple of questions:

I’d like to load some high-quality piano samples for Digitakt. Any recommendations? (I like ‘felt’ piano, I came across this: https://soundghost.net/product/delicate-piano/)
When using only KeyStep37 to control Digitakt, any recommended reads/vidoes or “bear in minds” that allows me to explore the full potential?
Is it true that to unlock the full potential of KeyStep37, I ‘must’ use a computer/DAW? I.e. am I “losing out” on important potential if I go with a DAW-less approach with KeyStep37? (I don’t want to get obsessed with too many devices.)

PS: I did read this post on pianos on Digitakt, so I’m not under any illusions to “create a piano” using Digitakt + KeyStep37 Create a piano using samples - #3 by Scooberto

maymind_trax · 2023-11-14T19:21:59.087Z

Welcome to the forum @pinwheel!

As each of the Digitakt’s 8 tracks are monophonic, it’s not going to be the best tool to explore playing with piano samples, unless you want to mess with the MIDI loopback stuff, which I’m guessing you don’t. Piano playing is typically polyphonic and highly dynamic.

I’m not quite sure what end result you’re going for, but there are many, many really good software-based piano sample players that will work better for this purpose than using the Digitakt. Another alternative is the MPC range, which handles polyphony totally differently than the Digitakt.

But maybe explain what you’re trying to accomplish exactly and others can chime in as well. Hope that helps a bit.

pinwheel · 2023-11-14T20:18:44.118Z

Hello, maymind_tax!

Sorry, I made the classic newbie mistake of not clearly spelling out my goal. It’s not too ambitious: I was wondering if I can learn to reproduce some of the not-too-complex piano melodies that I enjoy, using Digitakt with KeyStep37 via good piano samples. But as you say, I’m trying to use the wrong tool for the goal at hand.

The “MIDI loopback stuff”: Indeed, I did not have this mind, nor do I have a clue about how this works. Any pointers on this? I’m asking just out of technical curiosity. I wouldn’t be going down this route, as I don’t want to bite more than I can chew.

Software-based piano sample players: I have no experience here. Do you have any good examples/recommendations? (I’ll be looking up as well.) Also do you know if any of those work on Linux, or are they Mac-only? Windows is not an option for me, afraid.

Your response also confirms what I’ve been vacillating over: I should just get a decent digital piano from Roland or something. And leave Digitakt alone for what its good at.

I hope I’m a bit more clearer now. And yes, your answer was helpful. Thank you for taking time to write back, I really appreciate it.

shigginpit · 2023-11-14T20:23:38.123Z

Casio ctx700 is inexpensive (relatively) and would be a better tool for piano. Sorry to give you an answer that is a purchase, any workaround will probably be unsatisfactory when trying to use Keystep to play piano sounds. That is mostly because while Keystep and Digitakt together WILL chromatically modulate pitch, it will be the pitch of a single sample and will not sound at all organic as the piano sound that you enjoy and are trying to achieve does.

You could load many samples of individual notes, which would give you a slightly more organic sound, but you would then be back to programming notes into the sequencer which is the same as how you stated you didn’t feel comfortable with, which is why you got the keystep involved. Also, a piano has a dynamic attack due to the hammer hitting the strings and use of the pedals, and you won’t be able to replicate that using a Digitakt.

Midi loopback is feeding the midi out signal back into the machine via the din “midi in” in order to address polyphony, and that would have some of the same issues as with the monophonic chromatic manipulation of a single sample. It would allow chords to be formed, but would still sound like a single sample being used to play a chord using a modulated pitch to control the notes.

Using a Retrokits Rk-002 cable you can do some interesting things with midi loopback, but I think a cheap rompler, even a secondhand piano rompler, will ultimately make you much happier. It will perform much more like a piano and in some cases will be a midi controller in itself so you may be able to substitute that for the Keystep while recording. You could also consider sampling that into the Digitakt as chords or riffs and then using those new sampled sounds on tracks, then control the Digitakt with your Keystep as the end game.

deadfly · 2023-11-14T20:24:49.067Z

You may find it easier to visualise the notes inside a DAW - I know I do. Your options are more limited with Linux but I think there is some music software available and it’s probably free so it might be worth investigating

shigginpit · 2023-11-14T20:31:47.944Z

Also sorry for the abrupt interjection, welcome to the forum and hopefully we can help find you a solution. I don’t know if I would say that without a computer, you are missing out on the keystep 37 features entirely, but Arturia’s midi control center software will certainly give you more precise control over the configuration of your midi controller.

maymind_trax · 2023-11-14T21:11:13.744Z

No problem, and thanks for making your goal a bit clearer.

I wouldn’t use the Digitakt for this purpose and especially wouldn’t deal with the MIDI loopback stuff if you’re still discovering the Digitakt.

I am not at all familiar with Linux so I’m not sure what software instruments are going to work with that OS, but I think getting a fairly cheap digital piano is going to be much more immediate and fun for your purposes. Here’s a pretty good guide for some options. Depending on where you are, there should be plenty of used options on Craigslist as well, as many people tried playing piano during the pandemic and quickly gave up. I personally like the Yamaha P-115 quite a bit but its a bit pricey.

As you progress, you can use the Digitakt to add beats and rhythms to your playing, so I’d definitely hold onto it as you make your way in your music journey. Good luck!

oomo · 2023-11-14T21:20:02.264Z

I can’t help much, but if you’re on Linux, Ardour is a great bit of software: https://ardour.org/

(I’m a software engineer that also hates using computers for music, but currently using Ableton on Mac and gritting my teeth )

Noumenaut · 2023-11-14T23:44:22.584Z

pinwheel:

I can learn to reproduce some of the not-too-complex piano melodies that I enjoy

This is definitely doable and an enjoyable use of the DT in my opinion. I have piano samples that I use sampled from both my acoustic piano and other software instruments. I have separate sampled notes for different registers of the piano, since the samples start to sound off when pitched down or up too far. Couple octaves seems fine though.
While it’s true, as others mention, this will not be like playing a real piano, that doesn’t matter if that’s not your goal. With multiple tracks, resampling and all the DT tools, there are so many great sonic experiments to be had with piano samples. Enjoy!

yoyz2k · 2023-11-14T23:46:41.122Z

Honestly, if you want to use high quality sample for piano or at least really decent, go buy a MPC one or MPC live.
There is sample pack for Piano which are quite good !
Plug your keystep on it, it will provide you in a DawLess scenario everything you need to play Piano, Rhodes, similar sounding keys.

Then sample what you play on the Digitakt, put drums/sample whatever and have fun.

It will be less painful than trying anything using the Digitakt for that purpose. I really love the Digitakt, but you will be disappointed. You will learn lots doing that with a Digitakt, but not musically.
The DT is a one shot/loop player with tons of capability, but not a keygroup/Kontakt/NNXT player. Wrong tool for the goal here.

Go DawLess like you wish if you play/work with Linux all day. Linux general distro are not the right tool to do that unless you tweak your distro or use the proper distribution with all the tools rightly package for Audio. And I use Linux all day for programming.
Use the right tool and use your time wisely.

If you don’t have the money and prefer spending time tinkering, you can use a small raspberry transform it in a small « rom player », and with few tweak it can sound « decent ». But a ten year old Casio/Yamaha/Korg workstation for cheap like 200€ might beat it in a breath. And will, without any doubt sound better than a DT with few piano sample !

prydal · 2023-11-15T01:08:59.139Z

Get the “Blackbox” or better the “tangerine nanobox” from 1010music. Its an awesome hardware sampler, that also does multisamples.

Meaning u can record each or multiple keys of a real piano, and then play them with the midikeyboard of your choice, like keystep.
Luckily both samplers come with multisample libraries already on them, plus there are many more if not infinite in the net.

In doesnt get any better then this.

Except you buy a nord piano or something😄

alexleigh83 · 2023-11-15T12:03:14.416Z

Hi and welcome

My answer to your query would be that it’s possible but not ideal

One thing that a lot of the artists you mentioned have in common is a very dynamic and subtle approach to piano playing and composition.

If you would like to start playing that type of music I can’t overstate the benefits of having a keyboard with a proper piano action (known as fully weighted or hammer action, as opposed to semi weighted or unweighted like on synths and most controllers). Full size keys will be useful in the long run as well. You would also really benefit from a sustain pedal to let notes ring out.

I think if you have room for a full size keyboard even the cheapest second hand stage / digital piano will be better than almost any other option, plus a tiny extra bit of money on a book to teach you a couple of piano basics.

They aren’t the cheapest though. A brand new digi piano with weighted keys starts from £350 or so but second hand you can pay a lot less.

pinwheel · 2023-11-15T15:15:39.140Z

Hi, @shigginpit. Thanks for the detailed response and the welcome!

You reinforce the point that piano would be a better tool. Understood. And no, don’t be sorry on suggesting the right tool for the job. I prefer a device that “does one thing, and does it well” (c.f UNIX tools approach). I’ll do some research and get a decent digital piano with weighted keys, as noted elsewhere in the thread. I also realize that a piano is a better tool when learning music theory, as you can visualize all the notes.

Thanks for the MIDI loopback explanation; very interesting. And TIL, what a “rompler” is. Also, I appreciate your other suggestions and thinking-out-loud.

On Arturi’s MIDI control center software — I see it’s Mac or Windows-only. I don’t want to buy a Mac yet just to explore the DAW world. (I know you’re not asking me to.) (As a Linux-world dweller, I’ve so far resisted Apple devices. But I recognize that Macs are great hardware and are the best tool for music producers. Maybe sometime in the future I might get one.)

pinwheel · 2023-11-15T15:18:14.207Z

Hi, @alexleigh83! Thank you. I’m delighted with my first interaction with this community. Very helpful.

You make a good observation on the artists I mentioned and their composition style. You guessed what was on my mind—I live in a studio (it has decent space), but I can fit in a compact digital piano. And I don’t mind spending on a good book; a decent chunk of my studio is occupied by my library shelf.

If (when?) I get a digital piano, I’d prefer a decent, high-quality one (e.g. Roland FP-30X). I prefer shelling out a little more for a decent quality piano, with decent, full-size weighted keys (and yes, your good point on sustain pedal is noted).

Thank you, once again!

pinwheel · 2023-11-15T15:26:27.024Z

Hi, again!

Yeah, all points noted. I’m gonna take up on your and some others’ advice here on getting a piano. At this point, I don’t want to deal with DAWs (just as a relief from daily work on the computer). And when I do delve, I’ll just probably get a Mac (as I don’t want to fire up a debugger on my DAW software on Linux; that’s no way to live for me )

I haven’t used Craigslist here; I live in Western Europe. But there are some alternatives. I don’t mind getting one new “real instrument” as a present for myself (I’m usually hard on myself anyway). I’ll check out Yamaha P-115. It seems to be in the same price range of Roland FP-30X (this is the max I’m willing to spend here.)

Yes, I plan to keep the Digitakt. Thank you for your encouraging words!

pinwheel · 2023-11-15T15:38:53.325Z

Hi.

Thanks for taking time to respond.

I had to look up a few things you mentioned (MPC live, NNXT, etc). Yep, I now recognize that Digitakt’s limitation here, while @Noumenaut (thank you for your response!) says it might be possible, but I’m not sufficiently advanced enough to use them effectively yet.

Indeed, as you know, there are some Linux distros with some of the music tooling, but they give too much grief in terms of “configuration hell”. This kills the immediacy of working with a glitch-free instrument/device.

pinwheel · 2023-11-15T15:41:29.589Z

@oomo Hehe, I hear you. I know Ardour, and it’s not encouraging at all. I’m gonna skip it and save my time.

I know Ableton is quite professional (many artists I like use it). So I’m sure you’re gritting your teeth on the right tool

shigginpit · 2023-11-15T17:14:12.995Z

I don’t know anything about Linux TBF but I did find this post on the Arturia forum regarding someone using “wine” (don’t know what that is) to run the Arturia MCC, you may like to check this out if you have time. Best luck to you.

Linux support (arturia.com)

pinwheel · 2023-11-16T11:22:55.582Z

Hi, I’ve seen that thread. “Wine” is a “Windows compat layer” — it converts Windows API calls into standard Linux API calls (more precisely, “POSIX”). So, it lets you run Windows programs on Linux. But I just don’t find it worth it to mess with it; it brings no joy for me. I’m aiming for robust, “unbreakable” setups. (I might use a friend’s Mac to try out Arturia’s software, out of curiosity.) Thank you for looking up.