Digitakt Capabilities VS Blackbox

[AdamJay]

Yea, good points @Airyck

I think what it comes down to for me are two things.
#1, and probably most importantly, I am generally dismissive of conspiracy theories.
And I understand that some folks are not.
It doesn’t make them wrong, or me right, or vice versa. But this acknowledgement informs my thinking on these things.
@JPM, I hope I did not come across too dismissive of you in my post above. If I did, I apologize.

#2 When I am comparing features on instruments, I look at how the implementations are, and how they are scaled and applied to other instruments.
For instance, with DT, I never expected to see the kind of sample playback features of the OT because it has so much more in common with the sampling engine of the Rytm.

The implementation of 48khz, mono, a single 128 slot list that shares 64MB RAM, with a 1GB +Drive made it more clear to me that this was taking a feature set from one instrument (Rytm), and expanding it to a dedicated product that could be more affordable (i.e. absent of Rytm features like analog synthesis, song mode, larger chassis). So slicing inna OT style is an entirely other thing.
Of course they found ways within that construct to make it more interesting than Rytm’s implementation, as they should have, considering it was absent the analog synthesis. So the same 120 integers of sample resolution were present, but with the addition of decimals for finer control of the samples (granular capability).
Also , they sought to make it more simplified for the market that would be attracted to the lower price, so the kits scheme was abandoned.

And then this was applied to the M:S, in many ways. 64MB, 48khz, mono… you can see the trend. The lineage is clear, and because of that I never expected either to do OT things, because while they do play back .wav samples, and the OT can too, the lineage was not the same.
Again, they sought to simplify it for yet a new market, so no more slot list (128) to manage. You get 96 patterns x 6 samples. So easy, as a $300 device should not be so complicated.

[JPM]

Yea don’t worry I didn’t think you were too dismissive. I think i sit just firmly in “middle of the road” when it comes to this stuff. Elektron are great and definitely not evil, but they are a company after all and employees need to eat, so gimping an older product that still needs support by releasing a new product that does everything but better is a quick way to hungry devs

I think conspiracy theorizing especially over instrument manufacturers is completely bonkers but I guess some people buy into all that stuff!

Anyway this is wayyy off topic sorry OP lol

[Geneoart]

Digitakt is probably my favorite sampler right now. I don’t sample anything longer than a few seconds though. Even 2 seconds is a lifetime of sample material really. Once you realize what can be done with sample start, length and loop you’ll soon see this is a monophonic wavetable synth. I usually record directly into it from my collection of sound making toys. With the sample storage limitation I think of this as a snibit sampler. 8 track is more than enough for me I see that as an advantage. Everything is focused and tight. Overbridge is the game changer, the digitakt with a laptop is full blown mini studio.

[shankiphonic]

This vid demonstrates a few relative (contrasting?) strengths of the BB and the DT.

The sampled the “F* You, Tony” vocals, and loaded a copy of the exact same sample on both machines.
So what you’re seeing/hearing in the video is exactly 1 pad on the blackbox, and one sample on the DT.

If Tony and Ezekiel were Samplers

chopping and slicing:
the blackbox’s slicer mode enabled me to very quickly create an persist chops that I can revisit and easily lay into the bb sequence (at any time AFTER the chops are defined)
each blackbox chop, or slice, is part of the overall sample. All I’m saying here is that if you’re using one, and only one sample, every millisecond of that sample is represented as part of a slice - so you can end up with some slices that are +/- junk. You don’t have to use them, but they can’t be hidden from the numeric or piano style keyboard that you use to play your samples.
a blackbox preset (project) has 16 pads, simply put, each is analogous to a DT track. using SLICE mode on a pad lets you dedicate a that single pad (track) to summoning dozens (there’s a limit) of slices on demand from that single pad. One could argue that P-locks on the DT enable the same functionality, but this isn’t really the case. There is no master list of P-locks, or slices on a DT track. This is really one area where the blackbox shines .
my Digitakt workflow is different from my blackbox workflow. (how could it not be?). While still using only 1 track on the DT as the voice of Ezekiel, It dialed in each phase in the pattern as I was laying it out. This is in contrast to me doing all the chops for Tony, on the blackbox, all at once.
If I wanted to re-use a chopped phrase on the blackbox, I could just recall that slice position and drop it into the blackbox sequence anywhere I wanted. To reuse a chop on the DT, I would find the chop I wanted from the existing pattern, copy it, and then paste it.

Sequencing
We probably almost never care about this BUT, blackbox min tempo setting is 40 bpm & DT min tempo setting is 30 bpm. If you try to slave the BB to the DT at 30 bpm, you’ll see drift. (Otherwise I’ve never had drift issues sharing clock on these two machines.)
for this Tony & Ezekiel sketch, I only had to use 1 BB sequence to manage Tony’s side of the conversation. A blackbox sequence (analogous to a DT pattern) has a maximum of 256 steps. In a BB sequence, the step length (of all steps in the sequence) can be from 1/64 to 8 bars long. regardless of the step length, you get 256 steps.
a digitakt pattern only goes up to 64 steps. (this sketch required more than the 64 steps available in a single DT pattern, so I had to use 2 DT patterns, but only 1 BB sequence).
digitakt doesn’t have song mode (to link/chain patterns), but it does have pattern chaining. There’s an ongoing debate regarding how easy pattern chaining is and whether it’s a suitable replacement for true song mode. I’m not going to weigh on on this here, but I use pattern chains all the time, and have no complaints to speak of.
BB does have a song mode. I didn’t need to use it here because the sketch was shorter than 256 steps. Note, this wasn’t a musical sketch. Normally I don’t always create 256-step sequences, and I often use many sequences. The consensus regarding BB song mode is that it’s an “opportunity area” for the blackbox.

effects and mangling
if you listen closely, you’ll notice that the only mangling in this sketch is coming from the digitakt. Above, in the section about chopping and slicing I describe the DT’s P-locks and BB slices. Although the BB slices are very useful, a sliced sample is still just 1 sample. As such, and effects applied to the a blackbox pad is “global” to that pad. Any changes to the filter, delay, or reverb effect all the slices in real time. If you want to manually tweak, that’s fine, but for more discrete control, you’ll probably want to use more pads.
BB, in general isn’t a mangling beast at first glance. But it does have a lot of potential if you’re willing to learn how to use it. Besides the filter, delay, and reverb, there’s reverse playback, loop/repeat, and granular. (DT doesn’t have granular) The one drawback about granular is that it’s a pad mode, and not an effect. Tony’s part in this sketch is done using the SLICER pad mode. I can’t use Slicer and Granular at the same time. So unless I want to break out all of Tony’s lines into separate pad samples, and then set those as granular, I can’t use granular FX in this use case.
BB doesn’t do note repeat. You’ll hear a little bit of note repeat with Ezekiel’s lines, (because DT has note repeat), but none of that from Tony.
DT doesn’t have granular or timeshifting (without using advanced tricks). But, it does have P-locks, and so I was able to do a small amount of pitch shifting, delay/echo tweaking, and some filter/eq adjustment (long live os 1.30) on specific lines (individual trigs) from Ezekiel on the digitakt. Can’t say enough good things about P-locks.

I already owned the DT when I bought my blackbox. the TLDR was that I wanted more voices. I thought, at the time, I wanted to be able to focus on drums with the DT, and have another linked instrument to fire off vox, etc. I got more than I expected with the blackbox, and I’m glad I have it. It’s not a DT replacement, and I don’t expect it ever will be. I often use either, independent of the other, depending on my mood, and objectives at the moment.

[AdamJay]

Please do not take my words out of context and misrepresent my point.

We do not agree. We disagree, and your mischaracterization of my points is problematic and disingenuous.

What I actually said…

@AdamJay

Ah yes, more narrative that each Elektron is full of all possible features by default but Elektron just chooses to “turn off features” from one box to the next to get you to buy them all. And that’s the only reason Digis don’t have song mode.

Yawn.

Otherwise, great video, but that old conspiracy theory is so tired….

[d4ydream]

Did you even read his full post? His post doesn’t support yours and he’s very clear about that if you read the whole comment.

[shing0jilla]

Oh my bad. I didn’t read fully. i apologize brother.

[sacguy71]

To be fair, 1010 music did the same thing with Bluebox and Blackbox. I have the Bluebox and it can be a mixer or recorder but has no sampling function like the Blackbox just like Blackbox cannot be a mixer. Having the Bluebox now and some Elektron gear, I’d go with Digitakt.

[AdamJay]

Sounds like they’re different products. Individual tools designed for specific purposes

I just never will buy into such conspiracy theories.

I understand that it is convenient for others to, though. It gives them an opportunity to express their frustrations rather than simply deal with the realities in front of them.
For me, it’s easier to accept the capabilities of a given tool and get on with making music. Life’s too short to trivialize the decisions of designers when such energy leads nowhere constructive.