When I was in college in the early 90’s we used programs like EZ Vision, Master Tracks, Sound Designer 2 (predecessor to Pro Tools), Peak, Reason, Cubase and Sonic Solutions.
I’ve been on Logic 9 for a good while now, great for audio but the midi is a little meh.
Curious what you mean about better integration between clip view and arranger (as long-time Live user who hasn’t used Bitwig). When using the two together I just put Ableton into two window mode & literally drag and drop between the two windows next to each other easy as pie. Been there since Ableton 9.1 , almost 7 years now.
What more is there?
(I’m a heavy arrangement view user and compose ideas in session only for use in arrangement view)
Bitwig’s clips across tracks are arranged vertically (whereas Ableton’s are arranged horizontally), so they line up exactly with their respective tracks in the arranger view. What is more, the thing you do with two windows is integrated in Bitwig as a single window view, so you can have the clips lined up on the left and the arranger on the right and can then play back clips and record them / drag and drop into the arranger (just like in Ableton). Given that the tracks in clip view run vertically, this just makes complete sense visually.
It’s a workflow thing really, def check out the demo - maybe it’ll resonate with you as well (I’ve been using Live since v5 and have always been a fan).
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Currently switching from Live to Bitwig so I can use Linux full time again. Trying to figure out how many of my vsts I can do without.
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Thanks for good explanation, now I understand. Although I doubt I’ll switch, I’ve been a Live Suite user for a decade and have written and use a fair amount of Max4live devices. I have a very comfortable workflow, and I’m very quick using it.
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First Program I had myself was Technomaker XXL. You could use samples and it had distortion. Then Cubase VST. Then Cubase SX 1. Then when Ableton introduced MIDI instruments in Live 4, I used Live for many years. After Live became a slow turtle, I started to use Logic Pro X. In its current state 10.5.1 is a dream workstation. And it’s a bargain too.
Had a brief dalliance with Cakewalk in the late '90s when it seemed that was all there was for PC. Didn’t make any music again until the mid '00s when I discovered Reason 2.5 along with my first Mac.
Somewhere around the late '00s I’d started using a bit more hardware and Reason, at that time, didn’t support it. There was also that messy Reason+Record period which broke all the things I liked about Reason. At that point I switched over to Ableton, just because it worked better with MIDI and hardware synths.
At first I loved working with clips but they actually slow me down when I want to construct a finished track. I got stuck in that habit of endlessly looping things and never settling on an arrangement. Bitwig does that functionality so much better (although I have a harder time editing and chopping up audio loops with it weirdly).
So, after 10 years or so of abandoning it, I’m back using Reason again. I collaborate with a friend of mine remotely and it’s the only DAW he’s ever been comfortable with. The relatively closed environment suits our file sharing habits and going back to a purely linear arrangement view has made me much more productive. I just wish I could send MIDI clock to more than one device at a time…
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I think the clue to why ableton has that layout is in the name of the software LIVE. When playing clips live it is much easier to press multiple tracks if the tracks are horizontal.
Whereas when working on a timeline, it is more natural to have the time domain on the horizontal axis for clip launching.
There is a similar issue with mixers. I think I have seen a daw where the audio can be displayed vertical over the mixer, but that still has the logical issue of how to display the incoming signal vs the signal that has passe through the mixer.
Since people aren’t really riding multiple faders anymore, perhaps it is time to change this idea of how a mixer should typically look.
The piano roll is still confusing though. I would think it would be better to drop the look of the piano, and perhaps use colored lines instead, with different of hues for the same note in different octaves (with customizable colors, and quick switching, as some people have preferences for this). RGB pad controllers could then use the same colors. So could keyboard with RGD LEDs. So instead of thinking key on a keyboard first, people would think color. I geuss though, it could be a bit problematic when it comes to track colors, but I think that kind of becomes as mess anyway, when attempting to color code tracks based on some kind of logic.
I think at the end of the day, it isn’t really possible to design a daw that will be consistent throughout, as it really covers multiple integration types.
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I wish that the daw and virtual instrument creators came together, and came up with a new kind of track, that could contain all sorts of data, so it could be exported/imported, fully between DAWs, and still open the same virtual instrument and effect busses, time coding, naming, instrument bussing, scale/chord settings. (and the tracks would also have features similar to hosts like Native Kontrol, and softube console, for advanced controllers to offer detailed control and visual feedback on the unit).
There are so many potential features of a DAW, so it is next near impossible for a single to implement all a specific user would want. But if we could freely open projects/track-batches in any major DAW, one could easily switch to the one best suited for a specific task.
(I guess though that would mean that DAW makers would have to make VST/AU versions of their included instruments/effects, but they could still have licenses excklusive to bundles with their DAWs, if they think they are major selling points for the DAW).
(It would be cool though, if this enabled non-editable virtual instruments/effects, for opening the tracks on a system that doesn’t have the license for them, to make collaborations easier).
I can understand why DAW makers would be hesitant to such a move, but I do think, it would be benefical over all for the industry, and over all, I don’t think DAW makers would lose users, as they would both be gaining users that aren’t interestad in switching completely, and rather work around issues with their current DAW as it is now, and they could also keep people that would switch, that would not go back after a switch, and keep them on, on “update plans” or irregular updates, instead of losing them completely.
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Started with fruity loops around 1996, which I loved to the heart. Not sure if I ever used FL studio. But I switched to Cubase because VST became a thing and I started to record from hardware, got an UAD card and cubase was more sophisticated then FL back then.
Had a musical break to get my university degree in engineering, party hard, get laid, party harder, get laid, spend the weekends with friends, in clubs, warehouses, illegal raves and get laid.
All that stopped at some point and around 2016 the itch to create music was big enough to try Maschine, which is fun but still not enough “hardware”.
So I crawled through my old files and installed that ancient cubase version only to realize I needed something fresh.
And the fresh became Presonus Studio One around 2018.
Writing this I am a little surprised by the journey so far. Haven’t thought about in a long time. 
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To chime in on the discussion.
I think all DAW in one way or another do the same thing. Record stuff (audio or midi), give tools to arrange and manipulate, implement specific hardware and software.
What’s really the key point is workflow: Yours and the DAWs.
Some are easier to learn and take away the technically, which is what I like about FL. You can laugh all day about it’s name and look, but I was super fast at creating because I could concentrate on creativity. Switching to cubase was hard! All that technical stuff, no YouTube tutorials and blog articles. Trial and error, calling actual people to help you set things up. It took some time to get fast again. And by fast I mean that I could flow through without being stuck to figure out why the damn thing won’t record.
Software today makes things really simple, but offer depth if wanted.
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The free version gives you a pretty good idea about the workflow. There is no support for third party plug-ins and there own plugins are stripped down from the artist and pro plug-ins.
From Ableton to Studio One 5 Artist. Because quantum 2626 had it as a free bundle and I really liked it. It’s worth mentioning that I use it mainly as a recorder.
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First DAW I ever saw and used along with a schoolmate when we were bunking off was the Midi only version of Cubase (well back in the day). I then went from a DAW I can’t even remember but was free during the 90s to Cubasis, through ReBirth (shame they had to kill that one off), Reason (produced an early electronic EP with that) and then Ableton Live since v5 until I got a 3-month trial of v10 (Live has been my go to for many different projects, especially v9). Recently, though, as I’ve mentioned countless times elsewhere on here, I’m all about Bitwig Studio and The Grid. I don’t want to switch again (I’m too old now haha) but I will keep Live 9 with me just in case.
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I started life with a copy of Peter Quistgards Cool Edit Pro, and had dabbled a bit in Reason 2 at that point. I remember at the time Ableton Live 3 was getting a lot of props, it seemed to solve a lot of audio probs users would have with regular software, and it brought a really simply midi implementation/recording to the game. I used Pro Tools after that for a bit, and also Logic for some surround stuff, but otherwise have always stuck with Live. Its interface bores me from time to time, but I can fly around it no probs. Any other DAW it’s always a relearning process. I’ve thought about switching, and recently dabbled in Bitwig and Logic again, but I stick with Live. I have hundreds of old files that would need a copy to open, so I pretty much stay subscribed, as it were. I like the Live community too I guess, and the broader Max community. Each DAW has its own culture in its own way, and I tend to find the content around the software sympathetic to my own interests, which is experimental audio, really. Other DAW’s can feel a bit ‘rock n roll’ or ‘mastering’ focused etc
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after Deck 2 & 3 fully stopped working on any Mac I could buy I switched to Ableton for a little while (and occasional use ever since). Then Tracktion (now Waveform) in about 2008. It has it’s irritations but it’s just a great DAW for mixing in.
My problem with Live is that Arrangement mode never gets much love and I generally got sick of clicking 2 x 2 pixel boxes etc The version upgrade (think it was 8 > 9) that killed my Nocturn/Launchpad combo was pretty annoying too.
…cubase on atari…
…logic on mac…
…ableton on mac…
…rewire logic and reason…ableton on stage only…
…hardware replaces ableton for stage…
…back to logic on mac…only for recording hardware…
…and now…bitwig…and also now…i’m getting to old for another next one to learn…
…no need to anyways…
…bitwig is THE future of daws…
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Switched from Sonar to Logic because I bought a MacBook and uni required submitted project files to be either logic or pro tools format. Logic was cheaper.
Always hated the UI though. When I finally ditched the MacBook, I went back to using sonar. Not really liking sonar anymore though (can’t quite put my finger on why) so I’ll likely switch to cubase at some point.
Also been using Reason since v2 which is fcking grand. Tried ableton a few times but wasn’t impressed.
I bought Ableton Live Standard in May when I was getting started with production. (Got tired of playing guitar by myself.) It’s fine, but I’m obviously not that invested in it since I’m still pretty new to it. And now it turns out that Ableton 11 is going to cost $160 to upgrade, so I’m thinking about switching to something else. Probably Logic. Or just a Zoom recorder. I think I’m more interested in playing instruments (and occasionally recording them) than creating tracks with my computer.
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Got Logic with the Mac after Cubase on PC. Recently got peed off that to do nearly everything in Logic seemed to involve changing the settings and just bored of the workflow.
Tried Ableton, but we just didn’t get on at all and looked at others.
New aim is to have lots of workflows and work with / in hardware to just get a break from Logic and being on a computer. Having lots more fun now.