I’m just grateful we’re living!
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The ones that come to mind are Waldorf Q, Virus TI, Nord modular G2.
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Yes fair shouts all round
Seconded - I think it’s interesting that Ableton have diversified so much over the years but it really seems like the Move and definitely Note are more of a wedge product to get you to buy Live/Push rather than full-fledge offerings.
Also the Move seems to be at strange price point - it’s quite a bit more expensive than other “entry level” hardware 
Maybe they didn’t want to cannibalize their Push/Live sales too much?
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Weird take imho, but not my first time seeing it. Just don’t really get the logic - it’s cheaper than a 404, half the price of a Digitakt and like a quarter of the price of an OP-1. I’m really not seeing much that’s cheaper that’s really in the conversation with it. I guess you might be thinking that it’s more “entry level” than it actually is?
In the fall of 2021, I believe, I stumbled across this video on YouTube, and it more or less sold me a MicroFreak, the first step into a larger world as it were.
There’s been some coverage now of how hard the current circumstances* have been hitting the boutique pedal makers, and I really do feel for all the small companies in both markets who’ve been taking on real risks in putting out cutting-edge stuff.
the current circumstances
Trump’s tariffs are stretching US amp and pedal companies to breaking point
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Very reasonable point. I actually don’t think the device itself is particularly “entry level”, it’s more about the position within their portfolio - they have a really competitively priced app, the cheaper versions of the DAW, but then there’s quite a bit of a “jump” to the Move. Of course the Push3 is a whole different matter since it’s a highly premium product. I also think the Move is more comparable to the OP-Z than the OP-1 in this context.
It’s almost the classic pricing strategy (I learned it as the “Breadmaker strategy”) where you use a cheaper product to make your expensive one seem premium and therefore sell better (cough OP-Z), but I think they would need something more like a Pocket Operator to make that make sense. ~150 EUR “AM-33” incoming at some point?
I think my overall point is I generally agree with your original core point about the ecosystem, but I think Ableton are missing a piece of the puzzle 
$3000-5000 spent in hardware and then…based on numerous threads here I’ve read over the years, 70% of those people will still end up tracking into Ableton. The whole Dawless trend seems to be on the decline compared to 2020 and there is a grudging acceptance that you need a DAW of some kind to create polished, “professional” tracks. Personally I don’t agree with that, but I find it telling that on a hardware forum such as this, that is basically consensus view.
And remember that Move is just their second distinct hardware product…I could see them coming out with other gear like a physical version of Drift synth or an enhanced Sampler version of Move. It’s much easier for Ableton to go into the hardware market in different areas than it is for a hardware company to make serious software/DAW. I mean look how inferior the software experience is currently with Akai and Roland both in their hardware and standalone software. They are not even close to an Ableton experience. It feels like check mate to me.
Also not everyone needs Ableton Suite, many professional producers including Anthony Naples have made full albums on Intro. The amount of progress made in Note from day 1 is quite stark and I wouldn’t be surprised that teenage kids will be making full albums with that on their phone soon.
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Hopefully not impolitely since it was asked, I have more than enough and I’m not going to GAS based on imaginary future loss.
The material conditions that are hitting small and less multinational synth manufacturers are going to affect me more than less new instruments to consume.
If I’m wringing hands about any of this, I’m doing so to avoid using what I have.
Edit: What I’m saying is, on totally unnamed other gear forums there were nonstop complaints and unhappy people before, during, and will be after the fall of the “golden age of synths”.
Any creativity needs to exist apart from market trends as much as possible, how I use vs what I use.
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That’s why I got a Manatee
I’ve been eyeing it but it slipped my radar after a while, nice one for the reminder. Do you fancy it?
I do like it a lot, though I briefly posted it up for trade as I contemplated its sound profile. I also noticed some bugs Fred still has yet to work out. But if it comes into its own, then it will deliver its fully unique position being small, multitimbral, contemporary in approach and with multiple outs. There are not enough good videos out there showing this thing off so I’m happy to follow up w more thoughts on it if you’re curious
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Wicked! I just added a bunch of videos to my YouTube GAS playlist, will likely swing by the Manatee thread after that. Will be sure to tag you, thanks mate 
Honestly if you had given 18 year old me an Ableton Move with the included Ableton Intro license, I would have been off to the races.
A Mac G3 tower probably would have just burst into flames though lol
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I’m skeptical that would have done more for me than Ableton on a laptop did (almost nothing). I needed a Digitone to learn how to actually make sequencer based music. No I could apply that to Ableton, but there’s still a good case to be made for more focused hardware if you’re starting. Not many people will start this way though.
Edit: I also just don’t really see people buying a Move as their first foray into electronic music production. The marketing and the reviews are telling you that this is a sketch pad for Ableton to help you get started with a track. I’d assume that you’re only starting to look into things like portable sketch pads once you’ve already started making music in some way, with a DAW or other hardware.
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I reckon we should rename the forum Synth Shoppers Anonymous or something like that.
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“My name is Daniel and I’m a synthaholic.”
"HI DANIEL! 
"
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I’m living through the bronze age of being pantsless.
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Mainly the thing about the price point is what puzzles me. Like, when you consider what Move gives you - 4 tracks of some combination of convincing VA synthesis / wavetables / samples, plus x0x sequencer, plus integrated playable interface for drums and melodic parts, plus good effects per track, per pad and on the master … going back to B*******r clones for a second, you’d need to spend over well over €1.5k to get anywhere near same kind of capabilities (for the purposes of this using the drum machines in place of samplers). And that …. wouldn’t be portable or battery powered.
Another reason why the “cheap clones” things seems like a false economy to me. Always did, but I do think Move is a good example of relatively affordable gear that’s pushed way past all that. The Linn “clone” is about the same price, and when you consider what you’re getting for your money …
I don’t have an OP-1 for obviou€€€ reasons, but it seems from this distance like the more direct comparison point - 4 tracks and synthesis, etc. Playable, can fill a lot of different roles in a live or studio setup. I think it’s worth taking it on its own terms, the bare specs don’t really do justice to how it works as an instrument imho. Wouldn’t see it as just another flavour of Live in a Box, although integration is another massive plus point. Or a mini Push either. It really is its own thing.
I’m not saying Move is perfect or anything - suffers from the inevitable tendency for companies to get something out the door and then fill out the firmware over time. 1.5 is great but it’s still only laying the groundwork for some critical stuff - still needs better midi implementation including cc and program change and per pad slicing, as well as a bunch of other things. Alongside plenty of compromises to make it work in the form factor that aren’t likely to change.
But still does a hell of a lot for the money and is clearly designed by people who understand and care about what makes electronic instruments work, as opposed to just trying to cash in on the cachet of The Classics. One way or the other, for me it’s a good example of the kind of stuff popping up more recently that feels like it’s … moving … things forward.
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Yes and no? Golden age for being a purchaser in that they’ve never been cheaper new and the market is flooded which also makes the barrier to entry low for newcomers. On the other hand I have doubts about how many classics are really being produced now. Maybe it’s just hard to see them through the glut but so many offerings are highly derivative if not loose clones and many others inspire little more than a “meh” reaction. Obviously there are some great new synths but even many of those get overshadowed by the next iteration a couple years later (is x still relevant?). All of the big names had their duds back in the day too of course but it feels like there was a hell of a lot more innovation and almost no unfinished products being released.
A lot of companies will almost certainly go under in the very near future but even if every single one folded the used market could sustain every serious synth head in perpetuity at this point, especially if buying for music making became the standard again rather than collecting or influencer aspirations.
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