Describe for people who are deaf or hard of hearing

plragde · 2023-08-27T18:17:11.608Z

I got this prompt just now when I posted a modular snippet (see Current Sounds) to my Mastodon account. I routinely write long descriptions of photos I post for those who cannot see, and I usually put in details that would be helpful for people who can (also I routinely hover over photos to read the alt text). But I have no idea how to approach this task for sound. Why is it so different? Is it just my not thinking through it well enough? I can maybe write something for those whose hearing has diminished later in life, but not for someone who was deaf from birth (and I have read about Deaf culture, I’m not completely ignorant in this area). Have you experienced this situation and figured out a good way to deal with it?

shigginpit · 2023-08-27T19:43:22.846Z

Music is an extension of emotion, or evocative there of. I notice that a lot of closed captioning for the hearing impaired does this when a movie score is being described, it will use a word evocative of emotion like “cheerful” or “intense” to precede the word music in the captions. With or without the dimension of sound, emotion is always at play in the human equation so it may be best not to overcomplicate the description and leave it to something universally relatable. Even with modular, words like frenzied or driving, rhythmic or haphazard, could all (at times) be apt descriptions.

Just my thoughts though, so not necessarily the only way to interpret the task. Interesting, at least for me it is, to think about how to approach this type of topic.

adamc · 2023-08-27T19:50:07.404Z

plragde:

I got this prompt just now when I posted a modular snippet (see Current Sounds) to my Mastodon account.

Since it’s modular you can probably put the following subtitle for everything:

[BEEP BOOP]

natehorn · 2023-08-27T20:13:11.645Z

Interesting topic!

For what it’s worth my understanding is that gigs are enjoyed by the deaf and hard-of-hearing via 2 main vectors: Interpreters and air movement/vibration.

The interpreters at gigs do a lot of heavy lifting with their own performance, they have to not only convey the meaning but also the tone and the vibe. As with all sign language there is a component of interpretation.

This lady is a bit of a legend in the scene:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Y6I2jNEwtTc

Going to follow this thread hopefully it has lots of interesting takes, info and suggestions!

I’d like to see some examples of your alt-text descriptions for images too @plragde - it’s cool that you do that. I was involved in doing some work for a charity here in the UK that has a very inclusive online community and one of my initiatives was introducing automated alt-text generation that’s main purpose was to encourage users to provide rich descriptions of their image uploads. I bet folks really appreciate you doing that!

Bilansley · 2023-08-27T20:41:29.723Z

To me music and emotion go hand in hand, I don’t think that you can truly “get” music with out it.

So in that same thinking, I believe to describe what the sound of music is to someone deaf from birth you would need to heavily associate what is happening with the emotions that are evoked by the piece. Interestingly from what I understand those who have a lack of one sense from birth, it is heavily compensated for by the other senses. I would say that visualizations of the the piece being performed to go along with the description. I always think of EVH playing Eruption in '84. Even if you dont hear whats coming out of his guitar, you KNOW whats coming out of his guitar. Also the sense of touch and somehow being able to describe the physical sensations that the music generates. I believe that they would understand that sound is physical energy and creates vibrates which they can feel, and understand. So describing music in that context might be helpful.

This is a very interesting topic btw. I think that it comes down to understanding how someone deaf from birth might have a brain that is wired quite differently compared to someone of full hearing.

Final thought: I believe that music can be described to the deaf, but I think that it is complex

plragde · 2023-08-27T21:29:19.994Z

adamc:

[BEEP BOOP]

Yes, though “modular” was in the main text, so that would be superfluous in the alt text. I do wish I were allowed to post both a photo and a sound file, but it won’t let me.

natehorn:

I’d like to see some examples of your alt-text descriptions for images too

I don’t think they’re anything special; it’s just that I see writing as one of my strengths, so I put effort into it, and this is another chance to slip some subtle text in, almost like a footnote. You can see some examples on my Mastodon feed: Prabhakar Ragde (@plragde@mstdn.social) - Mastodon 🐘

Bilansley:

the emotions that are evoked by the piece

Yes, this makes sense, though I might be hard pressed to ferret out any meaning from a two-minute modular snippet where I’m trying out a recent purchase! The interpreters I see in concert footage (very impressive) are not only signing (so they are fluent in a shared language in which I am not) but have movement and facial expression to help them convey those subtleties. I fear I will be very bad at it, but of course I’m not going to get better if I don’t start trying. Kind of like the music itself.

Bilansley · 2023-08-27T21:35:20.237Z

plragde:

I fear I will be very bad at it, but of course I’m not going to get better if I don’t start trying. Kind of like the music itself.

Modular is a tough nut to crack for sure, but I think there is a way. To me personally modular has always seemed, mechanical, like a clockwork mechanism. Not so much that it is robotic or dull, but that it has a timing and event based sort of essence in a lot of cases (not all as modular is expansive). Also the implication of electricity and how it is the blood of the system. I feel like using analogies to universal things would be at least a starting point. But there are depths of modular that would be very complex to convey verbally…some of the stuff that goes on is almost like a “sum greater than its parts” type of situation and im not sure how you would go about describing that. “Alien” or “otherworldly” could be words, possibly the key is describing what is isn’t.

shigginpit · 2023-08-27T21:38:30.728Z

plragde:

ferret out any meaning from a two-minute modular snippet where I’m trying out a recent purchase!

“the feeling of being a child again, enjoying a secreted piece of Halloween candy on an evening in late November.”

plragde · 2023-08-27T21:40:37.232Z

Bilansley:

But there are depths of modular that would be very complex to convey verbally…

I definitely think this is worth attempting. In thinking about it in this context, it feels as if I’ve been coasting. If I think I’ve achieved something, surely I can describe what that is? And I thought I could, because I did write captions (essentially) for the snippets I posted on social media and on my Sounds page. But those were for hearing people. This is a new and worthy challenge.

shigginpit · 2023-08-27T21:44:51.375Z

Consider that words are inadept at conveying feelings of even the most humdrum variety, we only accept them as a substitute because that’s the only common branch of communication we have aside from slugging each other in the face or caressing a cheek. To blame yourself for the inadequacy of language is a fools errand.

But regardless, it may open doors for you as a describer of what you feel if you pursue this further, so I’m all for it.

There must be a more eloquent way to say “describer of what you feel” but I can’t imagine it will get the point across with any less murk, so I’m going to leave it as is.

ViolentMeals · 2023-08-28T06:43:40.723Z

It sounds like a fun challenge! I’d probably drag a thesaurus into the fray.
“ An insisting, tumescent bass line slides in greased, mechanized strokes beneath the pealing of several frozen bells that drip sparks. A whiff of ozone.”

tubefund · 2023-08-28T07:19:55.764Z

Interesting topic indeed. I wonder if there is any research to find somewhere. Would be a challenge to invite 2 deaf people for a weekend in a studio and let them describe what they feel or experience with different music, sounds, tempo’s and vibrations. I guess you need osciloscopes, vu meters, bone conducters, very high pressure speakers where they are aloud to touch and feel the cabinet, tweeter, woofer and whatever. Perhaps their world has a different translation from soundwaves to their awareness then for those which their brains are translating the same waves mainly with their eardrums.
As someone with hearing i can feel that lower frequencies resonate primarily with the lower part of the body and the higher the frequency gets the more it moves up. The main issue imo is that 26 letters in the alphabet aren’t near enough to truly express and communicate feelings, just basic phrases. It’s undoable to transate a single song in a book and leave the reader with the same feeling. Besides that is the experience of listing to a song or piece of music depending on mood, place, soundsystem, state of mind. Very very interesting, good luck!

micabeza · 2023-08-28T07:41:06.575Z

Mod TENS units to accept modular CV.

SoundRider · 2023-08-28T08:22:40.075Z

plragde:

But I have no idea how to approach this task for sound. Why is it so different?

Only a guess, why it’s very hard …

when I talk about sounds to others I often observe myself and others to use terms to describe sounds, which are borrowed from our sense of sight like “bright”, “dark”, or sense of feeling like “smooth”, “rough”. I hardly know terms, which I would directly connect with sound like “loud”, “quiet”.

IMO describe sound is difficult in itself. Maybe it’s only me … ?

Even if we try to explain ot a blind person the picture of a dog, the person must have an idea of a dog first. It’s mandatory to know what “snout”, “eyes”, “coat”, “tail”, “legs”, “paw” means. We could help by letting the blind person touch a dog, but what would be the analogon to sound and a deaf person? Hard to say.

Some frequencies, particularly low ones, and rhythms by drums can be felt over the skin. But what about a complex sound of a violine, guitar, synth?

plragde · 2023-08-28T08:27:42.832Z

SoundRider:

Even if we try to explain a blind person the picture of a dog, the person must have an idea of a dog first.

Right, sound is more abstract, especially the types of sounds we make.

muzka · 2023-08-28T08:32:49.837Z

As mentioned emotion and feelings is often used when describing though these audio descriptions are most often used in pieces where the audio is used with intention which makes it easier. For example to create tension in a film scene or to indicate mood when scoring a scene of loss etc

Audio used in context if that makes sense

Audio used solely for listening purposes becomes more difficult I guess but I’d think about what feelings and emotions it creates and what you visualise when listening. Use terms like dark and bright, slow and fast, calm and aggressive, rough and smooth, subtle and intense etc

SoundRider · 2023-08-28T08:32:59.047Z

The interesting fact is that we perceive sound very early in our live. It starts in the womb of our mother … rhythm of her heart, muffled sounds from the outside, and until birth no real sight … it’s very “emotional” - having no better word for it.

Bilansley · 2023-08-28T12:05:22.373Z

I had ment to post this earlier, but this YouTube channel is a gentleman that is blind from birth and he essentially talks about his experiences, but also has a open forum where people can submit honest questions about what it is like to lack a sense from birth. He does a really good job of describing his experiences, and even though he is blind not deaf I think that the way he processes things and how his brain is wired might be valuable insight

In particular there is an episode where someone asks him to draw a cat. The result will surprise you. It worth a watch.

This particular video from his channel is also very interesting and might be useful

sleepside · 2023-08-28T12:49:07.986Z

I saw the title and immediately thought of how many tactile words we hearing folk already use for music: warm, cold, sharp, smooth, sweet, abrasive, etc