[ Debate ] Sample Collection : How you use it?

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

Samples-Presets Collection : How you use it ?

My thread is to deliver my experience of this subject from the PRO people i have around me and what they said to me, or speaking about this subject without to give names. (And don’t ask names hahaha) I also think to that subject because of the Definitive List i make for this community based for OT, AR, AK-A4…

I will bear in mind with the fact you probably release music yet already or at some point. I will also start as fact you’re good people and have respect for the other people work. Also it’s a difficult subject too, as law is country relative too.

With my Label there’s Demo we receive, of course we don’t know every sample collection out there ! i mean it’s impossible. We listening everything, when something have effect on our emotional side we put it on a folder called “Listening again”. Of course, things will not sitting well or not pleased us for X Reasons… we put it not in Trash. But in a folder called “Reply ! and gives feedback”. One day i receive a track i find it nice honestly it’s groovy very pleasant, not pick time hits but what there’s not only pick time there’s also a moment where party start and party ending.

We decided to release it. At the promo on PRO stage we receive feedback and a guy from it in a chat discussion on Facebook told me when i said hey thanks for the feedback on “X”, You welcome… it’s cool, i have done a lot on it, maybe 90% of the track coming from my sample collection :slight_smile:

BOOM : i can told you that had an effect for some time… but

I passed over it, but i will never forget it. And quite honestly, it’s diminished the love i have for the track. And i can’t passed over it, i don’t know… whatever… The guy make good music at the end so… it’s ok.

That’s a Experience Memory now. So, my introduction is quite long sorry. The first advise i would like to give is to keep at least a certain amount of Sample usage, like a balance between Materials and your Creativity. That’s not because the business gives materials that you should you buy an Octatrack or Ableton Live or whatever Sampler, fill it with something you just download without paying rights on it, use it, tweak a bit and Send, and release Your Music !!! because actually you done nothing more than a DJ here. i jump directly on what i’ve just said. I’m a dj since 1993 so i know what’s a talented DJ is and what a selector is… and when a auto-proclamed DJ should probably just play for his wife … all of that. And there’s Talent in DJING, make all people dancing for hours without leaving the dance floor with music that people don’t know and write a real emotional story at some point, maybe by mixing 3 tracks parts together and get something awesome yeah… i know … !

(at least you should release people a bit so the Bar can sold drinks hahaha sorry)

SO i repeat : Keep balance between Materials and your Creativity that’s the first consideration (and i choose “consideration” word for something)

WHEN You should use Samples-Presets Bank ? then… i will make a list which is right i guess (at least for me) BUT at some point i really recommend to working with PEOPLE find a MC, a singer for the Vocals (make it yourself), Buy a machine drum ! Design your synth sounds ! Experiment ! have FUN ! Hire or Collaborate with Drummers for shakers line, Keyboards riffs ! Music is sharing (but not sharing on Warez website dude hahaha) sharing the love with other musicians and at the end on stage with people !

  • To study !!! (Yes exactly you right, study sound synthesis, study rhythm groove)

  • To use One-Shot (Yes if you on the budget and it’s hard YES !!!)

  • To use Loop because i can’t get this groovy shaker and i can’t find someone (YES !!!)

  • To find inspiration (This inspire me, it help me to start with something and i will tweak so much that’s it’s not recognizable anymore from the beginning : YES !!! and This main loop delete it, your track exist again ??? huh if not there’s a problem make a new track i guess)

  • For all the other reasons : Keep a balance between what is not from You and What is purely coming from your soul, your heart !

i will also add a part to end that. That’s another release we can’t signed because it’s use a real known voice and a French One ! so we’re in France and we decided to ask the Producer to asking for “Rights to use it” And we finally don’t release it… Because no rights finally back to us in return. I would like to point you that Sampling ERA is not as chaotic as in the past. We can’t use Sampling today as creatively as before. Without to ask RIGHTS before to use it, PAY for it etc… because now we have real pain algorithm and you can’t hide from that. Of course, you can have the PUNK attitude and FUCKING the universe but at some point you will have to take RESPONSIBILITY of your WORK.

And it’s always when you make a Tune, play by everyone, the moment where people with rights on something come back to you asking for hummm everything you won. So it’s math there maybe it’s worth the price i don’t know… i’m not sure hahaha

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#2

Just because someone’s using samples it doesn’t suddenly make them less artistic. If they have a good ear for sound and understand what they’re crafting it’s just as valid as any art. If someone’s using a drum machine or synth that is ‘so well designed everything comes out of it sounds great’ that doesn’t automatically make them an artist.

Like you said, your opinion only changed ‘after’ he told you he used samples, you should be judging the final output, not everyone can afford to spend tons of cash into the prestige of having high end equipment for the process.

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#3

That’s your opinion. i Respect it. I just give advise and insist on keeping the Balance i not said people shouldn’t use Samples-Presets…at all… i just give my opinion and how i use it. I’m no god people can do what they want. I would to express myself and make our world better or at least what i consider a “better world” which i did.

If you take a Picasso, a Banksy and a Chuck Close and make a Tryptic by glueing together

that’s not what i call ART sorry but that’s what i think. i called that ART THERAPY maybe Hobbyist.

“not everyone can afford to spend tons of cash into the prestige of having high end equipment for the process”

i’m sorry i’m not said that too there’s no need of such high price materials to be creative… there’s second hand market, actually MFB 522 is really nice drum machine, i see KINK with it make real magic with this small and affordable Drummachine… no need of high cost graphic tablet to drawing something, no need of a high price camera actually to be a good photographer… BUT Maybe people want to make profit more fast, with less work, and booked before to actually be interesting… I guess that’s how our world evolve then.

#4

why do you care so much for what people are building tracks from?
a piece of music should be more than just the sum of its parts
I can somehow understand and thank you for encouraging people to build theyr own shit
but if someone uses just barry whites drums and michael jacksons voice to build a track that makes me go ham on the dancefloor ill ask him to keep going
moreover ill beware of judging music (selecting is a different story)
In the end i wanna stick to just having fun in building grooves and make it anyway you wanna make it

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#5

Yeah i see your point in the Remix, Mashup things … I respected too !
I do not like it so much this kind of Mashup and Remixes anyway… (Except in rarely rarely cases) Same for me like Reboot movie in the Film Industry or something…

So we finally take a real part when Musician in the beginning of Electronic Music complain that it’s not Music. Because if we consider " Glueing " other people parts without to add something other from us except to have Taste and Mixing in the " Glueing Art " as writing Music. I would say that we learn nothing from Music concrete, industrial, experimental music then… And at some point people who really like this music will cry when this music will be done without a human behind !!! Because it’s coming next !!!
So yes, i will fight that and i will not be lazy on that subject… (stupid french guy hahaha)

I guess TASTE take a real part in this… also.
Have a nice day @ruebe and @Jacknoid

#6

This is a difficult topic - if you warez the latest “construction kit” samplepack of the latest en vogue genre, you will almost automatically sound “more pro” than most of the cats spending time making their own sounds. And that’s just one aspect of it.

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#7

That i know… I just explain things and if 2 people on 50 get what i mean that’s ok with me…

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#8

And to that a mastering for 1 track cost aproximatively the price of a pack like that (But it’s ok to learn but mixing is not a template it should be done for each track, no way to apply a unique magical formula). So i advise people who would like to go on this road to just pay for a master done on a particular track if they want to send to a label record “something more PRO”. But in the mean time it’s label who normally take care of that.

No need to sound like a pro, if the track is way nice, tell a super story, or if it’s the loop of the year no way a label record don’t sign that track or that loop. Also so you need NETWORK so getout of the studio sometimes :slight_smile:

The Music market need FRESH TALENT who done real writting, real original sound and not try to sound like this guy or this sounds… We (DJ) all going in shop, listening 100 vinyls and only buy 5/10 vinyls or digit… Music production this days is boring because cloned too much, and cloned on cloned gives just nothing more… than nothing (we just loose essential things in the music DNA, emotion and soul)

#9

And all this gets even more compilcated since nowasays the “person” needs to be on point more than their music. I hear alot of youngsters are just looking for fame and some fanbase instead of aspiring to “make great art”. I know I am generalizing alot here (thank god), but it all still seems alot more common these days. Samples are a doubled-edged sword in that regard IMO.

Forr me it’s scary how good some of these packs sound when thrown together. Using them can be very appealing!

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#10

i understood nicely… STEMS (for DJ and Producer) and Total Improvisation (for Live and PERFORMER) are marketing assets these days. And i tell you !!! (not you @tsutek) Youngsters don’t go that way ! it’s just magic powder at first…

You just have to speaking with your soul and heart, the music language (so you just have to learn speaking) and make YOUR THING

Tools, Gears, Posture, Positioning yourself : is not Music, not ART, Music-Art is YOU

#11

I find it very nice for people who’s newcomers and want to create some oriented TECHNO and i find the Process fine… Track is a matter of taste i suppose then, but the process he explain is a good way to get your thing. what i find nice is the first part is studying the music genre, or artist skills… i recommended that to analyse and study things… always nice and also it usually gives fresh new ideas born from analysing stage…







From same series but for HOUSE Music




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#12

Also i recommend this course from NOAH PRED for more experienced user, it’s a very nice one to watch

#13

It makes sense for people who are trying to stick within genre tropes to use the same samples/sounds as the people they’re trying to emulate.

I have no problem with people working like this but personally find it a very unappealing way to work - I’d much rather try to find something fresh and interesting than to use the same sounds, blocks, structure, tropes etc. to create something that people are already familiar with.

I understand that many people want to make genre specific functional dance music but I tend to prefer music with more imagination.

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#14

Mastering won’t make a track sound great if the sounds and mix are poor. Mastering is a tiny layer of gloss, it won’t fix a track that doesn’t sound good.

The choice of sounds, arrangement, composition and the mix are 1000x more important to get a pro sound.

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#15

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#16

I’ve been using the Elektron presets, kits, and sounds on the AR and RYTM (I’m lazy to design my own sound, if I do, it ends up sounding not as I want it to.) Does anyone know how to take one kit out of the preset without triggering the rest of the patterns of the other kits? I’m in the factory presets project and I made a cool pattern and want to make other patterns without the other kits playing…

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#17

Hello, you CAN Copy past kit in a new kit slot and reset pattern bank…
goto LOAD KIT menu, highlight a kit, hit function+rec.
load other project or slot, goto LOAD KIT menu, hit function+stop.

if I do, it ends up sounding not as I want it to

That why there a learning curve… it ´s small for drums because you have start point so job is half done for you.

Also i didn’t say avoid sample collection. I say use it smartly and keep at least a balance between what you 've done yourself and what you use from the sample collection 70/30 is good I guess… also you can modify as it’s not recognizable… anyway, that’s what I think. But people do what they want I just hope one day they realize they done not so much… and try to make more personal things rather to mixing with taste already elaborate parts from other people.

To me there’s sampling and remixes. There’s one-shots (and selfmade sample) and there’s loop and building kits. I didn’t feel well in the second category of usage.

#18

I think the problem for me is the way some people view the process of making music. I have a friend who has released an lp and a 12" on a very well loved and respected techno label, but every sound on those releases are from Reason refills. I don’t think the label knew this, but someone called him out on Discogs. There are no tweaks or edits of any kind. He uses effects basically more than creatively, but he has a good ear for composition. These tracks sound very intricate and atmospheric, and you won’t hear the usual obvious sounds you might be used to in techno. The problem I have is that he honestly believes this is how electronic music is made. The tracks sound lovely but I don’t listen to them, as I don’t feel much creativity went into making them.

#19

I think the problem for me is the way some people view the process of making music.

What is the music process for you ? There’s people who make music and there’s beat-loop makers and there the one who make only puzzle … to me create music is inject yourself in the music with most of materials coming from you (i mean musical notes and rhythm) i don’t speak about instruments and tell a story…

I will adjoin to that, if people create their sound (i mean synthesis) they have real chance to get their own signature on their music. i think it’s important in electronic music to experiment in that way and find their sounds. (to me at least)

I have a friend who has released an lp and a 12" on a very well loved and respected techno label, but every sound on those releases are from Reason refills.

Yeah yeah so be happy for him :slight_smile:

He uses effects basically more than creatively, but he has a good ear for composition.

good ear for composition : that’s something, isn’t it ? Not all people have that ? Actually composition is part of the process (and a very important part)

These tracks sound very intricate and atmospheric, and you won’t hear the usual obvious sounds you might be used to in techno.

I guess that’s why he released, because label find in his approach something fresh :wink:

The problem I have is that he honestly believes this is how electronic music is made.

Now he signed, you can’t fix him hahaha :stuck_out_tongue:

#20

Sorry to Revive this topic, but i think it’s still a hot topic
(even if there is more serious than we agree)

I have not really changed my mind on this subject. I always think that an artist / musician should only use copyright-free content that does not belong to him intelligently (i mean you can’t really heard because it heavily manipulated or fully rewrite) or represents a certain percentage of his productions (20-30% seems to me a good base without sacrificing creativity) or it’s only for kick start inspiration and you get rid of the most then…

SO as you know there’s template and to be honest that’s a good thing to LEARN, no doubt from that point of view… Learn how to construct, mixing, get that sounds or that dynamics etc… i think it’s great for people who struggle and need to understand/progress.

Therefore what to think about that :
Abletunes template “Waterfall” released in 2015

Probably an Abletunes customer who released that from it :slight_smile:
Released in 2017 and claiming ownor rights (because signed on a label)

It’s not to say it’s crap … BUT is the added value sufficient ?
To me it’s a NO

There’s a voice, Drums are not the same. Melody is the same in G rather A in the Template. Tempo is 150BPM, Time of the song is 20 seconds more than the template.

So there’s just FOOD for THINKING about it. The next decade will not be the Sampling Era because of AI and algorithm. My advise is learn Sound Synthesis, Take music courses, find instrument players (when you don’t know how to play it) to compose or play parts from them or from your ideas ! Design your Drums, Design your sound signature ! That’s my advises for the next decade.