Dawless and 'mixingless'

I too am an idiot and would like to chime in on this idea of “perfect mixing and mastering” which currently plagues electronic music. When I hear slick tracks like that I think about those “Tasty” videos where someone is cooking or baking and there’s some “hot” or “fresh” track in the background that sounds “perfect”. Now when I make music I ask myself…is this background music for a “tasty” video? And if the answer is yes, then I know I’m not creating music from my heart and I should stop and reconsider my motivation. Actually this never happens and if it did I would harness my powers of perfection and get rich selling jingles for commercials and short videos :nerd_face:

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This made me really laugh :joy:

Classic acid house doesn t have that much to mix, no? Kick, snare, clap, HHs, bassline, synth, sample. I d invest in getting that right. Maybe pay an engineer to assist you so you can learn from it?

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“I love the little imperfection of these tracks”
“… and outsource the mixing process”

these two sentences dont add up in my head. if you want the sound of a track to be mixed like that, then why outsource that? I dont think a mix engineer will try to get a “crappy” characterful mix done. you are definately better doing this yourself.

to me its one or the other. but take this with a grain of salt, its my german direct half talking here.

I’d offer you some 1 on 1 sessions on mixing electronic music. over skype or whatever. I make techhouse, so the concepts are the same Id say. we could take a track or yours (or mine if you want) and mix it a bit. I could give you my thought (and work on my skills in the process) and you could ask questions if you want and also show me stuff. I can send you a link to a track of mine to see where Im at. Im no pro, I just think this could be fun.

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But you need some frequency seperation at least.
Take a band, guitar, bass, drums, singer.
Those elements already provide frequency seperation.

If I synthesize my lead, bass, drums etc. my hi hats will have content from 20-20k, similar to my bass, lead etc.

You don’t have to spent most of the time getting the mix right, but levels, panning and some eqing at least.

Exactly. You can get a good mix with just that.
Maybe that means not to insist on having that synth bass patch in the arrangement or not using this pad sound, but if the arrangement benefits from using another sound, maybe the original one wasn’t so good?

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I pretty much only EQ and pan tracks. No compressors, few FX (the odd stutter for movement), and that’s it. Mostly I make music with Digitakt/OP-Z and a guitar, plus added field recordings. The DAW is just a great tape recorder, and an easy way to rearrange parts, and so on.

My problem is getting from the boxes to the DAW. Overbridge is fine for the Digitakt, but then you lose all the effects (including the P-locked effects, which are kind of the point of the Digitakt). I end up tracking one track at a time, which is ok, but then I have to do it over if I make changes on the original parts.

The OP-Z is even worse. It has a song mode at least, but midi sync isn’t as good as Overbridge sync. You also have to zero out all your pans, and get levels equal between patterns before you begin.

In both cases you have to perform the track mutes live, or you’ll lose the FX tails.

What should be a simple transfer process is a real pain.

I’ve recently tried doing a live, stereo mixdown of a track, but then what if you need to remove the drums for a bar? And you lose the ability to EQ each track. And even if you eq your samples ahead of time, what about when that sample is playing alone? It needs more of its original frequencies so it doesn’t sound thin.

Ironically, I think that the OP-1 might be the best for this, as you can just copy the entire tape your DAW as four tracks.

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The Avantones won’t really be able to tell you whether the mix is muddy in the low end. They’re not monitors which are designed to give you much bass extension, they’re more designed to replicate the frequency response from a ghetto blaster or car stereo in order to give you an idea about how your mixes will translate, in which case why not just use a ghetto blaster or car stereo? The limited low end of the Avantones makes it more likely that you will want to overcompensate the lows and thus produce mixes which are more muddy.

There’s plenty of decent monitors which will help you locate and eq low end “mud” out of your tracks for less money than the Avantones. Right tool for the job wins every time.

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If going for tiny the small genelecs are hard to beat. The avantones have a specific use as described above and thus don t make good general monitors.

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Btw, i can see why mixing is a problem if you re only doing it on headphones…

Regarding the monitors. Just go straight for Yamaha NS-10’s. They’ll give you the flattest response. I WAS using Adam A8X’s. They are on standby and I did go back to them to try/AB the differences and the Yammie’s were flawless. I totally recommend these as your first purchase.

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This is good advice, but IIRC those are second hand only today. I use HS-8 series as “budget” solution for most linearity for the money.

But be warned. The saying goes, if your mix sounds crap on those Yamaha monitors your mix is crap … BUT … if it sounds okay, it will be okay on other monitors as well :wink: I can confirm this.

Constantly reading it as “dawless and meaningless”

… but that’s me, just how i see my hw setup these days

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Spire Studio

i basically just “mix” in the machines, either digitone or octatrack. any synths i use i’ll run them thru for effects. i only have ableton live lite, so all songs got to fit the 8 track limit (thrive on restriction). All they have is a 3 band eq, which i don’t find usefull on a full stereo mix, but i’ll just use light compression as glue on the master. I really just want it to sound exactly how it is when i wrote/perform it. i’ve grown tired of micromanaging things in the final stages… feel like it’s only necessary if you’re recording live drums/amps in a room with mics.

however, if i plan on releasing it I’ll always get it mastered - it’s a way for someone else to hear it on monitors (i use headphones only) and get it ran thru a console/outboard gear. most of all get that volume boost without clipping that i’ll never be able to achieve. I’m fortunate to know a few people who master, so it’s also a way to support their work.

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interesting device, but i’m quite happy with Zoom LiveTrak series.
planning to buy L-8 to record my gigs.

There are many occasions when I’ve created something really strong sounding on my AR mk1, saved a copy of it with the intention of ‘mixing it’ only to go back to the original finding it much groovier and punchier (loudness adjusted). There are some things you shouldn’t touch, as long as it sounds objectively good. A trained ear and frequent breaks often help, but the intuitive decisions we make whilst working on the fly are the best imo. mixing happens subconsciously and shouldn’t trump the creative flow that happens when you’re locked in and focused on music making :blush:

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This was a good read, i recorded a track on my dn and it got mastered. He said the mix was perfect, no external eq or overbridge. Just straight dn

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@harmonyinultra That’s fantastic to hear. Though I’m having a brain freeze— please remind me what “dn” is?

Elektronerd lingo for Digitone :wink:

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Thanks :blush: yep, one of Elektron’s fortes is that their sound has a mastered quality to it, especially the DT and DN.

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