Crowdfunding — The Good, the Bad & the Ugly

[Mies_van_der_Robot]

@Smapti

If the company offers a discount for essentially being a beta tester during the period where promised features are being developed, I see no problem with this.

I agree. But I also see an important distinction between “being a beta tester” and just using a product that isn’t feature-complete, but is sufficiently low on bugs in the features it does already have that you’re able to use it freely and reliably for those features.

I deliberately say “low on bugs” because no product is ever bug-free. The question is whether a bug is what developers call a “show-stopper”, which for those of us who perform live is not even a metaphor. If the bugs are minimal enough that you’d consider performing a live show with the thing (use your imagination if you don’t perform live), then I’d argue you’re just a user, not “paying to be a beta tester” as some people so often complain.

Yes, there are situations where companies do overpromise and underdeliver and ship products with show-stopping bugs in their core features. But there are also many that just take an iterative approach to growing and improving their product. And in those cases, often you end up getting new features for free that a couple of decades back would have required waiting for new hardware and then buying the new box.

[Mies_van_der_Robot]

@Jukka

MidiGoblin

Ooh, this looks very cool! Right now, I could do everything this does with an iOS app and/or Axoloti…BUT, I also typically have far more interesting things for which I’d like to be using those devices. So having a cheap and cheerful little hackable box like this would let me offload those functions to the Goblin and free up resources. Yes, please!

And I like the idea of my Minitaur having a Goblin bestie. Mythical creatures unite!

[Jukka]

I notice that there are already a lot of videos for the MIDI Goblin, like – how to save patches for the Volca Keys, which doesn’t have a MIDI out. This guy is definitely planning to support this device.

MIDI Goblin Videos

[icaria36]

Was this one mentioned already? HiChord - Pocket Chord Synthesizer

This is HiChord (PROTOTYPE) :)

Another small synth likely to awake skepticism or plain lack of interest here while doing great in their crowdfunding campaign.

[GurtTractor]

Tha’s the smallest screen I’ve ever seen. A screen for ants.

$250 USD seems like a bonkers price for what appears to be a neat stocking filler.

[Jukka]

Where is our Brave New World poster to really excoriate this ? Though as icaria36 points out, as a crowdfunding thing this is really ringing bells !

Another design win for Electrosmith. They are really making a lot of people a lot of money.

[GurtTractor]

@Jukka

Announce a product with a detailed list of features. Either use something like Kickstarter or take paid pre-orders.

Then in a reasonably short period of time, release the product with some subset of the originally described features. Continue to promote and sell on the original promise, and then along the way release new features in a long series of new updates.

To some extent there is nothing new to this. It actually is a described development model, called things like continuous development, or rolling releases. I think what is being shown now is a way to monetize this. I’ll call it “Trickleware”.

This is the Early Access model which has spread from video games to hardware it seems.

Except that with games they at least have a big banner on the page so that it’s clear that this is the model under which it is being sold. For hardware it’s very much caveat emptor atm.

[thermionic]

@GurtTractor

For hardware it’s very much caveat emptor atm.

I mean that’s really the Kickstarter model, no?

One odd quirk I’ve had happen all of twice is when a developer has issues with a particular analog or digital architecture, and then decides to release two versions of a product instead, the “limited” first and the one they wanted to… eventually (if at all!)

• The Nanoloop FM seems to be no more, was going to be analog, finally released digital and the initial plans were scrapped
• The Wond II / EMPick was going to be digitally controlled, but but because of microcontroller shortages (that may be gone by the time it’s ready) will come out with a smaller analog subset of features first

[Jukka]

Artiphon did this with the KS of Orba too. Soon after the KS fulfillment they switched to an Orba 2 hardware.

[GurtTractor]

@thermionic

I mean that’s really the Kickstarter model, no?

I should have specified that I was generally referring to hardware being delivered in a clearly incomplete state, Kickstarter stuff may or may not be included in that.

[jemmons]

Yeesh! Yeah, glad to see the Daisy in there, but for that price, there’s a J-6? They’ll throw in a sequencer, a Juno, and $50 for your trouble.

[Niko]

A built in speaker and battery! Thank you so much

[Niko]

Ouch 250, thats a pass for this

[Jukka]

Microrack is showing at SB and they are planning a KS coming up soon. Lots of good experimental possibilities for your own custom arrangements with this.

[Jukka]

Cyma Forma

@Jukka

ALT

Just my opinion, and i am not trying to damage their campaign.

I am see warning signals. ( Non-malicious ones. )

From the SonicState video, they are launching the Kickstarter next week, but they don’t have a completed prototype yet. They plan on a completed prototype in July.

That by itself breaks a primary rule for me. You never launch a crowdfund with incomplete hardware. I think they are rushing the launch.

They are adding a filter and enlarging the patch matrix. They are making a completely different enclosure, which will be of metal, not clear polycarbonate. They most assuredly have not pushed hardware to a manufacture ready state. Likely they have not worked the manufacturing engineering side of things, you can’t really without mostly completed hardware.

You need to reduce the lower upfront cost risk as far as possible before taking funding to pay for the more expensive items you can’t do without major cash, that you will get from crowdfunding.

The other thing that has me concerned is the proposed ship date, February 2025. My concern is not that that is not far enough out, it is that it is too far out. That tells me they have too many things left to do. Every one of those things to do comes with risk, and unknowns.

Also of concern, they have clearly tidied this up to do SB. The show can be a part of a market campaign, but you don’t drive your schedule off of a show.

Again this is not to damage their campaign, but as someone with direct experience with this sort of development, i feel a necessity to express my concerns.

This may go entirely according to plan, and come off without a hitch. Or you may decide to fund this anyway with this knowledge. But if you are more of a fence sitter on the decision, it is reasonable to decide to pay more later, and wait this out.

[thermionic]

@Jukka

From the SonicState video, they are launching the Kickstarter next week, but they don’t have a completed prototype yet. They plan on a completed prototype in July.

That by itself breaks a primary rule for me. You never launch a crowdfund with incomplete hardware. I think they are rushing the launch.

This is something I really need to keep in mind. I wish every manufacturer well, but I prefer to take something that already has development down, I’ve been burned already by projects that take the money first and get bogged down by complexity and significant revisions and that’s even among people with existing projects out there in stores.

[Jukka]

It is part of crowdfunding for a portion of the development cost and risk to be spread. This is good and can mean that projects happen and are completed when they might not otherwise occur.

It also means that some percent of the time things will be delivered late. That also is part of the deal.

But if the developer has not done there homework upfront, then to me that is another matter.

There have been two projects that are not in that category to me, the vacuum tube one that was marketed as money for an experiment, with the results being shipped and the one that asked for money to make the results open source.

I can find the names of those two, if anyone asks.

ADDED :
Telmatronic Groovetube
PikoPiko Profree-4

[dzyndzel]

I have some skepticism to statements made and how they relate to testing, but none of them are related to what you are describing. I don’t disagree with your skepticism when it comes to setting dates but I also don’t know where you are pulling some of the info from like the changing of the enclosure - because I was told it’s going to remain a clear top.

[Jukka]

@dzyndzel

where you are pulling some of the info

I don’t write stuff like that that i can’t confirm. I did my reading and watching. It’s in their website, and earlier videos.

[dzyndzel]

Fair enough. I find that weird because I specifically asked about what would be in the final product. It’s possible there will be two models? I think we need to wait and hear more when the Kickstarter launches.