Creating a DJ set

Elektron Gear Machinedrum
#21

I feel that. MCL is quite a bit more complicated, and slightly buggy, but it’s continually refined so I think it’ll only get better. (The non-sequencing features are pretty awesome so it’s worth it to me to at least learn the sequencer while the kinks get worked out.)

You just caused me to think about song mode and how I miss it. Setting up a song on MCL isn’t much fun. But Justin just added PRG CHG support … so I think it should be possible to arrange a song on MD, launching MCL rows. Don’t know how good the workflow for that would be.

1 Like
#22

Just finished up a project for work and got two weeks off til the next one.

I’ve been gelling with the A4 I bought a while ago, but I don’t think that’ll be part of this set. So far it’s MD + maybe MCL + M:C + maybe NL3 + maybe ND3P + maybe laptop. I don’t mind lugging up to 5 things - the MCL being integrated into the flight case now. Laptop is the least desirable.

The reason MCL is uncertain is that it has some recently-discovered bugs. Also the grid workflow is a bit of a bear and could use some streamlining.

I think I got a good plan, which is to use Ableton not as a MIDI brain for the set, nor as a bunch of audio clips upon which I jam on synced devices, but as a sketchpad to develop and practice my set. Therefore I must set a restriction for myself, that nothing is recorded in isolation, and possibly I utilize multitrack recording - I have 16 channels to work with. That way I can ensure that what comes out can be performed, and with multitracking, the result of practicing in studio can be mixed and released.

There’s a potential to want the feel of canned samples for texture, or external sequencing to supplement the limitations of MD and M:C. These will be allowed, but the set must be performable without these enhancements. That is, no computer at the show. Of course ESI can take up the sampling slack but loading is really slow so I don’t think my bank can get over 16 or 32 MB. It would be really bad if there was a power cutoff before I was supposed to go on. Thought: Maybe I should invest in a battery for the ESI.

1 Like
#23

If you’re gonna multitrack do yourself a favour and get a (or several depending on a bunch of factors I guess) expert sleepers usamo to deal with midi jitter. Assuming you haven’t already some solution in place for this ofc.

#24

I think if i would have tried the same, i would have figured out a way to use clips, like in Bitwig and Ableton, and have a controller to launch clips on demand. A large amount of clips and if the were looping would have been nice together with a good controller. I´ve seen lots of very nice sets using just this solution. Haven´t tried it myself but, i would have refrained from using my workstation for this and insted loaded everything in my macbook and run it from that.
Good luck!

1 Like
#25

Well I realized I’m a little ahead of myself in that I’m thinking about “the set” when I should be just finishing the songs, and then figure it out. It’s definitely easier to do the bulk on a laptop and whatever else I bring to a show is way more fluid. I think it’ll be clearer after the songs are finished. Doing it all live is an interesting challenge.

Really want to finish this other project that I backslid about 30% progress on with an accidental button press. One of these days I’m gonna be over it and recreate/redo. Honestly I’d rather finish that first but I can’t even turn on the Model:Cycles and I’ve just been doing these bleak Phillip Glass-esque passages on the A4 but it’s like I don’t have the energy to get off the ground. I’m lost.

Hoping I can just get some stuff on Soundcloud/Bandcamp soon. I have so many ideas strewn about. Hard to embrace this deep a depression from recent events, besides just the Boss Rush project deletion.

1 Like
#26

Yeah, losing a project sucks. Happened to me once, i lost an album full of almost finished tracks. :frowning:
Best get on that horse again and finish as much as you can.
If i were in your situation i would prefer to work with finished tracks, and sort of remix on the fly. But that’s me. :slight_smile:
Good luck anyway!

#27

I’m thinking about doing it with backing tracks and synced Elektron boxes for improv, specifically MD and M:C. That would take a lot of complexity off the performance side.

Wish I could get a Digitakt. MD is fun with samples but it is such a pain getting new samples into it.

On a side note you lost a whole album and didn’t kill yourself? That’s impressive… :dizzy_face:

#28

Well…i was young and fiery. Suicide was not in my vocabolary. Today i might have slit something, since i work so slow nowadays. An album would represent years of work now. So, i do lots of backups. :wink: And, I have a young daughter to be alive for! :slight_smile:

Your idea seems legit; it’s also more fun to have boxes to back the tracks!

2 Likes
#29

Oh my GOD :aw:

Machinedrum is killing me!

So many limitations and random quirks

Here’s my definite plan. MCL isn’t stable and mature enough for me. I need external MIDI recording, some sort of way to do “kits” (no sound load on row change), a quicker access to Y grid mutes and probably more I can’t think of

I’d like to use the other features along minus the sequencer, but the recent disabling of mode switch while sequencer is playing has made it more of an all-or-nothing proposition, made things more complicated.

I spent enough time on MCL for now and I’ve already requested the first two so I’m setting it aside for now

I’m going with a plan I’ve come up with where I can use the MD in a live situation without being forced into quantization for everything in my patterns, or 4 bars.

I’ll just dump some things here should they be of interest to anyone

Tracks 1-8 - drums; loose layout incl. BD, SD, tom, CH, and OH
Tracks 9-12 - chromatics, phrases
Tracks 13-16 - utility/control: CTL-8P, CTL-RE (sequenced), plus two free, Track 16 possibly dedicated to RAM-R2

They are grouped in groups of four A-D for purposes of muting, locating sounds, and external sequencing

I came up with the best chart for CC’s, much simpler than the ones floating around. Ableton still doesn’t have the ability to load a simple friggin list of labels, and sadly Machinedrum Remote just will not work for me, so I decided to just learn the ranges. I will make a PDF of it. Where’s the best place to make it widely available?

Gain staging is an ongoing problem. Without trig velocity, I’ve use VOL for hardness, which will have to stop. Instead VOL will be off-limits for P-locking and hardness will be done with external sequence velocity, accents, DIST, and external automation of LEVEL.

It’s quite tedious to convert existing patterns to external sequences. There aren’t that many existing patterns, but there are a lot of p-locks, and hunting those down may take longer than simply triggering patterns from Ableton. Therefore I have two ways of going, 1) PC messages (cannot be sequenced in an intuitive way) and 2) the MIDI MAP, which I’ve used with success in the past. I have too much stuff programmed for the default trig mappings, but thankfully notes 64-127 are available for pattern launching which fits nicely to banks A-D. I don’t use E-H much so this is fine, and it can serve as a nice scratchpad area.

External sequencing adds a lot of power and I’m comfortable with the idea of a “base pattern” with enhancements on top. Though, it’s probably going to gradually move more and more into Ableton. Not great - I hate having compositions split across devices. But we’re learning to be less perfectionist and just get results… finished tracks.

I decided that I’m not even going to use the extra outputs after all, it’s just too complicated. I’m pretty good at mixing on-device.

I’ve got much more of a handle on the E-MU. It’s better than sampling in Ableton, less roundabout. It has its limitations. But, it’s nice to have a “global” sample pool independent of Ableton or the current project, with instantaneous program changes.

It sucks so bad there’s no output of p-lock CC’s. Even with turbo MIDI. The reason is muting. If you mute on machine it mutes not only external MIDI but the Trig Interface. This makes manual takeover of tracks impossible, and that’s actually something I like to do a lot (on other devices). If it only muted external MIDI I could finger drum on the MD. If I could sequence on MD and transfer over to computer, then I could mute on the computer’s end and finger drums from anywhere. The only OK solution is to devote a track or two to live drumming, possibly copying the sound from the desired track - Step Record, Copy, Switch Track, Paste, Clear, leave Step Record. Try doing that live - it’s gotta be ahead of time. Maybe track 15.

Or maybe the “feature” could be fixed. @JustinValer are you out there? Can you rescue me from this terrible feature with a firmware update?

If not I’ll forget it. Maybe bake “mutes” into the sequence when I want to takeover and do it at the same points each time.

Right, so, to sum up, track layout, no VOL p-locking, composition and arrangement in Ableton, give up on improvised manual takeover,

I think that’s all for now …

Working with Machinedrum, being the primordial Elektron box, resembles Linux. So much work and research put into configuring it to work the way you need. Each track is like a tiny program. I look less crazy when you realize that this was the intended use. Figure out how you’re going to use it, come up with a set of conventions / Global and make a set.

#30

Have been following the thread with great interest cos I’d like to call myself an avid MD user. Avid in the sense, I’ve been playing with and enjoying my time with the MD A LOT especially in the last year after what, to me, was a groundbreaking firmware update (X.04). However, as I’ve been reading this thread I’ve noticed quickly that my approach is hugely different to yours. Mine is WAY less technical, for one. Essentially, I’ve taken the MD for what it is and has become and also embraced the limitations there might be as regards the sequencer and whatnot. In fact, I’ve had too much fun with just the MD to not really even dive into the MCL which I got last year (its time will still come). I’m literally using it standalone. Talking about the unofficial but officially FRIGGING AWESOME firmware updates, btw, there have been THREE in the past year, with additional quick fixes. If it’s not immense love for this amazing instrument that has kept the developers at it so intensely, I don’t know what it is. Every time I switch on my MD and it says X.05 on the screen (waiting to complete something before I upgrade to X.06), I raise my proverbial glass to the developers and thank them for all the fun I’m going to have for the next couple of hours.

Anyway, what I meant to say was that I truly can’t wait to hear your set once it’s done. It’s obvious a lot of thought and work has already gone into it. Really hope you’re also finding it fun and rewarding and not (just) frustrating creating the set! :heart: :elmd:

3 Likes
#31

Love this post so much man.

I appreciate the path of least resistance here.

After finding that embracing the limitations wasn’t for me, I was faced with the tough decision to sample it and give up all the lovely parameter tweaks, or make it work for me, my style, my preferred way to perform. I very much just want to get on stage and bang and tweak away. I like to drum and play the keys as much as tweak. Not much pattern queuing if any. Plenty of variation and progression in the rhythm and supporting parts. Really take advantage of automation - smooth, complex external automation cuz that’s one thing that really makes MD come alive.

I hope that what comes out of this is special. I’m getting an idea of what “modes of play” I’ll use when and what purpose they’ll serve. So I hope it’ll be enjoyable for being a bit different from standard techno / experimental IDM type stuff, more of a hybrid of “traditional” world music (mostly afrolatin) and techno, with a bit of experimental. Getting MD to be more friendly to humanism and physicality is … challenging enough to question the effort. But I can’t give up its sound and wacky tweaks.

I don’t know, it might be the last time I try imposing so much on it. I keep thinking … Digitakt, Digitakt … or Octatrack (again). :ecstatic: or just Ableton with MD in a light supporting role.

For now, this is what we’re trying!!

If it sucks, and I go with the plan B I just mentioned I’ll let you all know!

Feeling pretty good though.

1 Like
#32

it kind of helps to think of individual rows as kits when using MCL and forget about kits all together.

as in you could switch to EXT and still use chromatic mode and stuff!? i didn’t try that, thought it was enhanced only.

#33

Already considered the option. The 4-bar limitation on passages that’s imposed by MCL isn’t acceptable to me, and trig conditions aren’t enough.

Yup, both sequencers can play together so you can use MCL’s other features along with patterns playing off the MD.

However for some reason the ability to switch modes while the sequencer is playing was removed. This limits the use of some features.

#34

it’s imposed on MD too tho… edit: and you can set overall pattern length to X8 speed, which is loooong, albeit limited to step input (MT still functional!), can create nice long structures with this tho.

never tried this, could imagine it causing confusion tho as the MD would be acting differently. using MD standalone and MCL are two different worlds, i have to keep them separate mentally. it’s nice to go back occasionally and experience full 14 bit sound mangling within the original spec.

#35

My point was I can’t use MCL either because it has the same limitation. Even worse because you can’t have kits and extend the sequence on some tracks by chaining without giving up worry-free tweaking.

By supplementing with Ableton I can add variation, fills, and progression freely, along with rolls, microtiming etc, completely outside the pattern’s boundaries. Not to mention arrange things much easier.

In exchange, I have to worry about a bloody laptop at shows. :skull:

#36

yeah, that’s what the conditionals and slot chains bring to the table. like korpinen says, we all approach this box (mcl+ or not) differently and that’s what makes the MD so expressive in different ways.

#37

MCL still has so many tools inside I’m probably bound to use it for one thing or another so it’s good to have around.

Believe me I am well versed in trig conditions and pattern chaining on my Cycles :wink:

This is a different sort of project, a bit ambitious I guess. Maybe more than a bit :laughing:

#38

…seems like, u got to think so much about realtime management in all this hw “live” only concept, that u’ll never be able to enjoy the moment for real…

which will leave u always stressed out and miserable…

and keep in mind, once u finally managed a concept of how to perform all ur knobs, logistics, song vs patterns and found a certain way to do it, start to rehearse all that, that way, suddenly u’ll find urself in front of the next big hurdle…how does all this sonic ball park really translates to big sound systems…
why o why every average dj will still sound better than u with all ur effort done…
80% of all audience out there will never see any difference…but they all can feel and HEAR it…

so next challenge taken…how make that “live” electronics really sound prestine…from top to bottom…

you won’t be the last to discover that all those , ur efforts will only lead to the same essential assumption and therefor solution…KEEP IT SIMPLE…dare to work with stems “only” adding certain truu live elements to each track u perform…

u got a stage crew?..u play a tour?..make the most of it…
but if u play various gigs, in different venues, all on ur own…make sure u enjoy ur stage time and feel better and stronger afterwards…
instead of depressed, worn and stressed out, afterwards, since u were strucked with little panic attacks throughout ur whole set…

i played almost 6000 shows in my life…took me the first 500!!! to learn thase lessons…
always searching for next new solutions to it…

if u wanna be dead serious with all this…take ur md and use it for additional tweaking on top…add an ot and dare to use stems on it…run all that through something at least halfway comparable to a stimming masering device…and enjoy ur stuff LIVE for real…

5 Likes
#39

Great advice here …

I suppose the only problem with doing that is I don’t know what parts to have as stems yet

Not only that but I have no idea how to organize the live bits. Do I keep them as lonely tracks after deleting everything else in a copy of the pattern, or re-sequence them in Ableton since we’re already working with stems now so might as well keep everything together.

Or do I make kits just for the live stuff all together.

It’s still such an unknown, have trouble wrapping my head around it in a strange way

So keeping it all the same is simpler… I think.

Also I have specific plans to use Control All in sections to drastically mutate the beat. It’s integral to the theme of the set actually. Of course being able to separate out some stuff to be free from that would be nice. Having to plan around that, I have two approaches in mind, put the melody on M:C, or if it’s on the MD, just mute it. It doesn’t sound good for the main riff to go all wacky most of the time.

We’ll see. I absolutely know what you’re talking about. Already been through it, though I haven’t played nearly as much as you have :open_mouth:

#40

Ah, pattern launching from an Ableton set, we meet again …

I’ve battled this so many times

There’s no decent way of doing it in a daw if you want things to be live and not have to manually launch - you have to use song mode

Re-visiting old lessons

We’ll give it a go

I have a feeling navigation is going to be a headache but song position is supposed to be supported.