Well said. yeah I just had the wrong expectations. I thought it would just be a souped up DT2 but, bugs and missing features aside, it’s still very much a different feeling instrument - and I end up making patterns on it that I couldn’t have made on the DT2. However, for developing patterns into full songs, the DT2 is just so much easier to integrate with a DAW, so I’m still using it way more than the TV - but that’s just a matter of workflow I guess.
On another note… getting the TV, which by all means is an extremely high quality sounding instrument, has really made me appreciate how special the DSP and mix bus is on the DT2. I don’t have loads of experience with hardware, but to me the only thing that sounds close to a DT2 in terms of summing (do not talk to me about maths) are the analog mixing desks I used to use at college. I think it’s because of the limited headroom on the DT2, maybe the peaks of each track interacting and clipping with all the other tracks like an analog desk does… or something… also the master overdrive on the DT2 just so awesome, set to about 20 it sounds like the best soft clipper i’ve heard. I’ve started to just import my stems from ableton into the DT2, at the end of the mix stage, just to get this sound.
This is obviously at the complete other end of music making than composing… and not the reason most people will buy the instrument, but I thought it was interesting.
Yes, 100%. Just goes to show you, different strokes for different folks. That quality you describe is something I didn’t like on either Digitakt. But you’re right. It’s kind of an end of chain glue.
This was actually major pro of the TV for me. that should have made my list. It has more headroom than any Elektron box I’ve used. Mixing felt more choice based instead of “I have to avoid it all getting chewy together.” But that’s a pro for many people.
It’s a shame the table can’t reflect this somehow, that and other ways in which subtracks don’t have the full features of tracks. But I can see how it would be difficult to represent that.
The relevance to the comparison is: A tonverk subtrack is (depending on your criteria) a lesser thing than a DT1 or DT2 track or a TV main track. For me, while subtracks have those limitations, it’s a no-brainer to stay on the DT2.
did you learn how to use the bus/mix sections of the TV? its got a much more robust set of fx and features. It should be very easy to replicate the master overdrive and compression.
Yeah but you kinda sacrifice the utility of buss routing if you just use it as a master fx. And unless I’m mistaken, you can’t route send tracks to busses, so you can’t get a compressor → overdrive on your whole mix
Personally I find the subtracks a clever way to free up “main” tracks in those circumstances where they would feel wasted, like for simple one shots that can easily be grouped and effected as a whole. Kinda like you’d do on a single DTI track to avoid wastinf an entire track for let’s say a single crash hit once in 4 bars. Like they would be a different, structured way to use soundlocks.
On the other hand it’s pretty clear that if the approach is to threat an 8 sounds subtrack as a whole drum kit the limitations would lead to a lot of compromises.
TV to me is more of a melodic focused piece of gear, and being me not so focused on complex drums sounds I found that working on 4 total tracks for drums, mixing single player for main hits and subtracks for grouped stuff/ear candy is plenty for my drums needs, keeping the other 4 tracks for melodic content, usualy bass-chords-lead-texture.
It’s always the same with gear, we can focus on stuff that’s missing or maybe try our way around with it to make it work in our direction. Personally I’d take polyphony, granular, multisamples and routing freedom over the 16 DTII tracks anyday since I’ve got TV, but to each their own.
I still can’t understand these discussions about the ‘limitations’ of subtracks when compared to something that doesn’t have subtracks at all. It’s just a feature and to me a very nice feature when needed. Sure, it ‘limits’ processing potential of each subtrack, but there’s so many ways to work around that for the benefit of having so many more potential tracks to work with. Heck, I dunno, but I like having them
TV also has the best sound quality of any Elektron machine to date, 256 step sequences, polyphony, multi-sampling and by far the most fx that are super interesting and creative in use. That’s no dis on a DT2 because it has its own list of positives no doubt.
@Snipecatcher Um, careful… almost sounds like a reasonable and logical argument you are making-don’t think they are allowed!!
As it happens I’ve just moved my Tonverk on. Little too complex for my simple mind (but so are all the other elektron boxes-hate myself for not finding a way to like the workflow but there we go!). It is certainly not anyway to do with the box not being amazing through as it really is great.
to try and make it clear this was my evaluation I wasn’t trying to persuade anyone else.
You have to understand that if I’m personally ruling out subtracks then it’s not hard to see why personally I prefer to stay with the DT2.
The only reason I used ‘lesser’ was to illustrate that, to me this is part of the comparison between DT2 and TV. And when those differences disappear or diminish, that’s when I’ll evaluate the TV.
OF COURSE lots of people will disagree … I wouldn’t expect anything less.
This entire thread is filled with cope from digitakt and octatrack users, this thing has 4x the voices of dt2, 8x the voices of dt1 or octatrack. “Limitations” of subtracks instead of focusing on the clear positives.
Nor did I either mate. Just giving my take on that, maybe it could have been helpful to try a different mental approach, and a different use case for subtracks.
As I said, to each their own, so there’s no need to defend your point and it’s implicit to me we all have different ideas, and the more the better
English is not my mother language, so just to be clear I didn’t mean to express any animosity on the subject, I love this place mainly because we can talk about the same stuff with different ideas, and that’s where I feel I learn always something new.
There’s pros and cons to all three. I’ve had tonverk since day one and still vastly prefer the dt2 for my own process. It’s useful for people to know which might suit them best for their use case.
Also you might want to somehow add the comparative latency of these devices to the list. I wish I knew about the latency on the tonverk before I got it, it makes it much more difficult to work with other synced instruments compared to the dt2 (and I assume OT too)
Sorry, @ciaba, just felt people were missing my point and maybe I incorrectly associated you with that. I’m just interested in the comparison, that’s what this whole thread is about, right ?
Looking through this… I’d argue that the digitakt is the most rounded of those machines.
The others can more… but I’m not sure if it’s worth the added complexity/money in a general usecase.
TV can pick up the slack with more features, we’ll see. DT2 is probably done with big updates.
If the DT1 is any precedent, then the DT2 can expect at least 5 more years of updates, including some biggies in the last couple of years before replacement. (that was when the DT1 got song mode and machines)
You proved you missed his point entirely. Comparing two different products where one has more voices, more features, more FX, or more bells and whistles, as they say, does not equal a better workflow.
If everyone preferred the same things, we’d have one house model, one DAW, and one Elektron device. Clearly, that’s not how humans work.
The fact that he prefers DigitaktII while others prefer Tonverk doesn’t make him superior or inferior - it makes him different. And that’s allowed.
Id’t take better workflow and the tool that helps me spread out my idea fast, over any other gear that has x128 more features - any day. I believe that was his position in a nutshell. Was quite clear from the get-go.
But some of you took it wrongly and then started projecting how Digitakt II users are coping, while it was completely the opposite happening…
Why are people even getting riled up about others voicing their opinions on the Tonverk? It’s supposed to be a flagship device but it’s lacking so much that it feels more like a toy to me. If you have an issue with this or any other sentiment, that’s great for you, so why are you getting angry about it? Let people voice their opinions and expectations and go make great music instead.
I think it’s more because it is what it is; and clearly is it, so you either want it or you don’t. To complain about what you wanted instead is just a waste of everyone’s time, including the person making the post. It’s like complaining a new Honda motorbike isn’t a car.
