As long as the kick is on, them hats suppose to be a lil loose. (ノ^_^)ノ＼(ﾟｰﾟ＼)
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We need an @innerclock ‘seal of approval’ sticker for gear with solid sequencers. Be helpful to know which boxes to avoid. Please keep updating the Litmus Test page!
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Litmus II Page Under Construction !!!
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If I lived local to you I would be bombarding you with gear to test lol
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I’m a bit old and cranky these days but I’m always up for a surprise 
I been in the sync game for 35 years give or take and I’m still going so hit me back anytime
DAW MIDI Interfaces are my current obsession obviously !!!
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Hey - I been away a bit but thanks for creating this thread - poke me if I can offer anything.
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I feel as though I’m in the same boat, albeit without any science to back up my feelings. I’m frustrated over the lack of funk. Timing and sound seem to be secondary to features. Depressing.
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I hear you. I push Roland hard because I love that company – I worked for them for 15 years – and I want the TR-1000 to be the machine it’s capable of being. And I own a TR-1000!!! The science is cool, and yes, I’ve been at it for nearly four decades, but you don’t need it. Your ears and brain already know what feels right; the numbers just back it up.
Yes – features over core function, never a good idea
There are simple reasons for this:
- More features read well in sales and marketing and against the competition, and they’re mostly easy to implement.
- Timing and sync are very dry subjects to the general public, and they’re not easy to fix, so they usually go unmentioned unless someone raises the issue.
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I’m glad you said it. If clock stability ever becomes important to you, it makes it easy to justify one piece of kit over another.
It blows my mind that the newer MPCs can’t loop record while slaved to an external clock, but can connect to WiFi, Bluetooth, and have features like touchscreens and mod-ribbons.
Who knows why they don’t support it when the older machines (at least to my knowledge) do.
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Can ppl check my understanding on this:
“MIDI isnt tight cause its inherently serial”
Assume a perfect sequencer triggering voices in an external drum machine over 5 pin midi. One voice per midi channel.
If the sequencer triggers 8 channels simultaneously, the first will play dead on and the last will, in theory, be play 7/8ths of some x later.
What is x? I assume it varies from receiving device to device, im interested in a jomox alphabase mk2 but also just in general.
Would midi over USB do any better? or would it still be inherently serial over USB, or dependent on the device and however its handling incoming midi?
Also does modern gear perform better wrt serial-ness and timing vs older stuff from say 15+ years ago?
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Depends where the MIDI comes from.
Cirklon USB MIDI out, for example, is much tighter than a DAW USB out due to the low priority given to USB and MIDI by most modern computers.
Depends how it’s implemented - but Colin at Sequentix tested sequencing 8 voices of his hardware TR909 on a single 16th via Cirklon MIDI DIN (which has more or less the lowest possible latency between serial notes possible) and also 8 voices via Cirklon USB into DAW playing 909 samples and the USB was considerably tighter.
MIDI DIN was audible flam, Cirklon MIDI USB was close to synchronous.
At one point I was sequencing various Elektron devices from Cirklon USB via computer (not routing the data through a DAW btw, rather using an app called MIDIPipe which directs it to the Elektrons before a DAW is involved) and recording and monitoring via Overbridge and it was razor sharp - suprisingly so.
The lowest value possible via MIDI 1.0 protocol + whatever the unit/DAW adds on top of that.
Re: Jomox’s - they react quickly and well to external MIDI in my experience.
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Eyeing gear I’ve got on hand at this point and thinking about the thread topic(s)…going to give this setup a go:
PC (Win11) Bitwig master clock → clock out via audio cable from UCX II → Nome 2 → DIN connection to mioXL (routed to dedicated Master Clock lane in Auracle X) → clock out via variety of DIN & USB connections to hardware synths/samplers/sequencers.
mioXL will be the bottleneck
@innerclock thanks for all the information and help here and the tr-1000 thread!
i have a hybrid setup. clock is generated by the multiclock (synced to ableton). one midi din goes to the cirklon. there i sequence synths etc but also clock further sequencers. to have as much connectivety as possible i use a mioxl connected with usb to the cirklon. i bought the mioxl because its the one colin seems to use.
now i wonder is the mioxl also a considrable bottleneck for stable clock in this chain for example?
ableton->multiclock->cirklon->mioxl->tr-8s
No problem
I’d have to do some more recent tests to be sure - it’s not totally transparent.
Don’t have a Multi-Clock but assume it’s a tight source.
So one 5pin DIN from Multi-Clock > Cirklon as Slave
Then USB MIDI Clock from Cirklon > MIOxl USB-A at the rear ???
And then the Clock out of MIOxl via 5-PIN DIN to ???
Now many 5-pin DIN outs and which port numbers ???
That’s using the MIOxl as a router - are you using it as your Ableton MIDI RX/TX interface too ???
And is connected via USB or Ethernet ???
i use the mioxl only as a device for the cirklon, not connected to computer.
i use only midi din out of the mioxl. not all din outs are used. but maybe someday. no usb at all goes out of the mioxl
i am not in the studio to see if usb front or back. the midoclock is sent to the mioxl with usb and then with midi din to the tr-8s for example. i forgot to write that.
the portnumbers i dont remember. do you mean the cirklon ports? its the usb midi ports with high numbers iirc.
will clearify in the studio but i am setting up a new room right now so i cant check in the moment.
still working on the room itself ^.^
I send u some numbers later
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wow! thanksalot !!!
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English summary:-
Cirklon 5-pin TX 1 MIDI Clock Out as Source Reference
Low Maximum Jitter - Good Clock Source
MIOxl DIN TX Ports 1 thru 4
Not as tight but still accetable
Half a millisecond late against reference
MIOxl DIN TX Ports 5 thru 12
A bit rough now - see the tempo deviation
Over 1 millisecond late against reference
For timing critical stuff - clock and rhythmic MIDI sequencing - there is no substitute for a passive / transparent router. The MIO gives you convenience of vast connectivity and data management but that comes at a cost.
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very valuable info. gonna use the mioxl only for trigger and cc from now on. with passive do you mean something like the kenton midi thru?
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