CFS (Creation Fantasy Syndrome). Any tips?

I’m having trouble figuring out how to word this, but i’m pretty sure others are having similar issues based on some of the year in review threads i’ve read on here. It feels similar to GAS, but a bit different. I’m going to call CFS (Creation Fantasy Syndrome).

CFS, for me, is an inner monologue coupled with external actions that resemble a procrastination around making music. I have these thoughts in my head around what I want to make and how I want to make it, and instead of actually doing the thing, I find myself on Youtube watching someone else make the thing. Instead of making the techno live set, I go on Youtube and watch some person do a techno live set.

This is followed by GAS as I see someone using something that seems like it’d be the perfect missing piece to my setup. I am constantly thinking about how cool it would be if I made X song in this way. Or when i’m on a walk I think about my OT and how I could tweak a live set architecture to flow better. But then when given the chance to actually execute those fantasies, I don’t.

I enjoy making music, and when I get something cool it’s such a rewarding feeling. I enjoy learning my gear, but it is a process and is obviously much harder than just watching someone on Youtube use, or teach you how to use it.

I’m looking to hear from anyone who has experienced a similar thing, and maybe gotten out of it, or at least found ways to deal with it.

A couple things that might be influencing this:

  • I work from home and my studio/work desk are the same thing. It’s not a feeling of me wanting to get away from the desk, but I struggle with focus on work here too.
  • I have a 7 month old who obviously takes quite a bit of time. But even when I have free time, and want to make music, it’s not what I actually do.
  • I’m a software engineer and really enjoy coding. Sometimes i’ll want to make music but will code instead. My hypothesis is I know that I can get what I want to work with code. Music on the other hand is harder for me to get something to sound good. There is the potential for “failure” in a session that occurs much more regularly than in a coding session.

I am aware of what i’m doing, so advice like “just make music instead of going on Youtube!” is not super helpful. I do a mixture of ITB and hardware so getting totally off my machine is difficult. And to be honest I think that’s less of the problem in that given the choice to make music on just my boxes, or go to my computer, I will choose the latter. I want to choose the former, but making music is hard and consuming content is easy.

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Make music with coding?

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I think that many of us here can absolutely relate to this, and that the experience you are describing spans a wide range of passions/hobbies/interests.

And I think this is the crux of it. There really isn’t a simple “aha!” fix for it. The best that I can suggest, and what has worked for me, is to start by setting the goal that you will do something, anything, for 20 minutes, every day. Maybe isolate a groovebox or synth from your setup, and just make yourself do sound design, or work on grace notes or dynamics in an existing drum loop. Literally anything, no goal other than 20 minutes.

If you start by minimizing ambition and just setting a small very achievable goal, it will start to build habit.

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One thing that helps me is being extremely deliberate and modest with my goals and time when I’m making music. I get easily overwhelmed, so committing 20 minutes to only working on a drum pattern or chord progression or mixdown or whatever has been really helpful at getting started. Even if I stop there, I still come away with something I can build on later, and I get less stuck fiddling with a four bar loop and deleting it.

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Couldn’t see this while typing my response on my tablet. Great minds think alike!

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Good thread and well said! Very similar boat here.

I think the OP sums it up well, just because one has “free time” that might not be the best creative time, because being creative is relatively hard.

Personally, it helps me if I remember that there is nothing really inherently “better” about making music than e.g. watching YouTube. For almost all of us, music making is a hobby only, and so there is very little inherent good, as tough as it is to admit this, involved in recording a new track or whatever.

The goal is to have a balanced life and do well in hobbies as well as work, family, etc. If being creative helps with that, awesome. But for me, if I feel just fried and want to spend my evenings for a month watching YouTube instead, I try to be okay with that too.

Electronic music on the internet is one of the most valueless commodities in the world at this point, for better or worse. There’s no point in stressing over it if it’s at the expense of the rest of your life.

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Definitely relatable! As someone who writes books in my job (academic), I’ve found a number of transferrable lessons there that help me enjoy the music hobby.

They center on managing energy:

  1. We all have higher and lower energy times, moments of peak creativity, sometimes at certain times of day or week, or in longer spells—having been a new parent not long ago, I’m gonna call that whole first year a tough time to get new projects off the ground.
  2. Regular sessions help a lot, but
  3. There are different tasks that suit different energy levels—there’s a mix of “clockwork muse” and following inspiration.

I go through whole weeks of sessions where I’ll design sounds, learn aspects of an instrument’s capabilities, or just zone out noodling with soothing sounds. Then phases of laying down or tinkering with jams. Every six months or so, I’ll feel ready to lay out some arrangements of my favorites and polish them up into a performance. I think trying to force myself into any of these phases would hamper my enjoyment of the hobby. But regularly being in contact with some aspect of it (even watching gear videos and listening to music that inspires me to try new things) seems like an important element…

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I absolutely understand what OP is talking about. It’s so easy to get a dopamine hit by watching some YouTube video than actually doing learning struggling and creating something, which eventually also gives a dopamine hit but it’s a longer roller coaster to get there.

As far as time management, discipline and focus are key. One thing I learned early was keep a running list of “engineering / studio” tasks I need to get done ie; update OS on some hardware, pool samples, clean up digital workspace, create DAW template. These are usually small 10-15 min jobs I can mindlessly complete when I’m no feeling “inspired” also they help speed up workflow when I am because I don’t have to put my engineer hat back on to fix something, and just stay in writing zone.

No matter what we tell ourselves, we are what we do everyday, if your day is mostly consuming content rather than creating it, then you’re a consumer NOT at producer.

Take notice and make changes

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Agile :wink:

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I think a lot of this is practicality and context, especially if you have kids.

From the moment I had kids I barely touched cubase or my beautiful old analogue synths ever again.

The kids are getting bigger now, a decade or so on, but going away from them or my partner to hide in a room making music at a desk would feel… unhelpful, antisocial, and… less fun than hanging around with them all.

That’s why I mostly use m8. On the sofa. It’s a complete meal, like the OT. I also have a battery in my ot, an op1f, and pocket operators. I can use them all on the sofa in a communal space, and I paid for them by selling old synths. Mostly, I just use the smallest things. Because I like to be on my back!

They ignore me playing with each other, iPads, books, comics. This is family bliss, and I can make fun tunes in the middle of it…

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This is the crux of it for me. I think the trick is to shift the fun part from “it would be awesome to make this” to something more immediate - “this sound is awesome, I wonder where I can take it,” or “this beat is shit, how can I make it exciting,” or just “what if I sampled this” or whatever. Like when making music is fun, you want to do it. When the thing you are excited about is imagining being a rock star… it’s kind of that old meme –

  1. ???
  2. Profit!

I don’t want to paint myself as a genius or a wizard, I absolutely struggle with this too, but I feel fortunate that I played in a bunch of punk/postpunk/sludge type bands over the years and as bands fell apart and rose from ashes, people moved and new bands formed, I came to really identify what it was I wanted from being in bands. Turns out it wasn’t to get noticed by Pitchfork or whatever; the most fun bands I was ever in were the ones where the band was at least partly an excuse to hang out with friends I wanted to hang out with. I don’t think it was a coincidence that the band(s) where that was the case were also the bands whose music was most liked by other people. I think you can just tell when somebody’s stoked to be doing it.

I played in a band that did a fake doom metal song as a joke, then my next band just legit played doom metal because we found we had a lot of fun playing doom metal. I never would have said “I intend to start a doom metal band,” we just kind of stumbled into an exciting idea and went for it, and it ended up being awesome.

I think that’s the trick: figuring out how to be stoked on making music. I think focusing on the imaginary end product actually gets in the way of that feeling of “oh shit this is fun” in the moment. Of course there has to be a balance. And I’ve been playing electronic hardware for a year, maybe I will hit a wall with it at some point, but right now the exciting piece is learning how to use it, being surprised by what my stuff can do, exploring and building stuff. It’s not as immediate as asking a bandmate to try something, but it feels a lot more immediate than laying down a track at a time in a DAW, and that leads to a different way of working that I’m finding quite inspiring.

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There’s a bit of a self-asserting fallacy among artists and musicians that output equals legitimacy but, throughout history, progress over time has been an equally prevalent model for some of the greats.

Hidden here is a rather lengthy in-depth personal take on CFS and what someone might do in an attempt to mitigate the condition, both psychologically and in practice.

A case study for giving yourself a break:

Leonardo Da Vinci was probably a busy guy, spread himself pretty thin with all of his activities and thus of his only twenty four attributed “major works” (paintings) only 8 are universally accepted as him having completed them autonomously within his 67 year lifetime. Of those 8 major works, three (including the Mona Lisa, a 14 year long art project) are considered “unfinished” and the rest of the 24 are all either disputed or only accepted as collaborative works.

This is a person of unparalleled genius and ingenuity who we are still in awe of 600 years later, uncontested as a master, and while his catalogue included a bunch of dawless jams and incredible four bar loops, the total number of tracks he created that were not co-produced by others, the stuff that really mattered, comes down to those 8 works and a handful of (7) others which are “widely accepted” as him having been the sole or principle contributor.

If you compare Da Vinci “by the numbers” to someone like Michaelangelo, an artist who often worked on incredibly time-consuming projects done in marble or painting the entire ceiling of the Sistine chapel, an artist who has closer to 80 attributed major works including architecture but excluding his many drawings, poetry etc. then the output of Da Vinci over his 67-year lifetime (even though Michaelangelo lived to be 88) is dwarfed in comparison.

So, Leonardo: Was the guy sitting around doing nothing? No. Was he always doing something that we could consider creative or innovative? Mostly, yes. Was he less genuine or meaningful as an artist than Michaelangelo, another master, who had an exponentially higher output? Absolutely not. Ultimately, is there a lesson that I can learn about myself from someone of talent which is arguably far superior to my own? Absolutely I can.

The first step is to give yourself a break and realize that life happens and continues happening despite our aspirations, lifelong or temporary. The easiest way to enjoy and be productive with your time is to be doing something you want to do with it. If what you want to do feels like a chore, either reassess what you’re doing or analyze the way that you’re doing it because somewhere between intent and execution there’s a disconnect occurring.

Forcing yourself to regularly do something is a good way to build a habit (and sometimes inspiration can become cyclical, so that something random which inspires us in those routines can then continue inspiring us as it branches out into new offshoots of that original inspiration) but in practice, our most blissful experiences with creation often feel like some intense moment of divine inspiration where a virtual hand is guiding us towards success outside of our own participation.

Then with age, for most of us, those moments of highly focused inspiration seem to come at intervals fewer and farther between, leading to a mindset similar to your definition of CFS. Some of our favorite musical artists may in fact be totally uninspired, but by dedicating their entire lives to something, being in the habit of regularly outputting music and possessing a unique skillset, they’re accomplishing something at what feels like a discount compared to the personal cost that we attribute to follow through and success in that field.

Best practices are always good to share and can often unlock small windows of clarity in our own struggles for self-affirming legitimacy, but don’t discount the powers of perspective and self-assessment as huge opportunities to be mentally prepared to do what you want when you’re inspired to do it, or even achieving better results when you’re simply forcing yourself to be creative.

By legitimizing yourself and your method, or your output, you allow yourself to get past the CFS stage. CFS is a form of “shit or get off the pot” and sorry to be vulgar but quite literally if you don’t have time to or feel that you can’t complete something within the allotted time available, we will often creatively “clench up” and then nothing comes out, and then we’re of course compelled to get back to working on something different which is not at all the thing that we wanted to be productive in, but where we’re able to feel and accept that our productivity and output existed.

We put ourselves into a mode which simultaneously questions and denies the validity of our self-identification as that entity we expect to be, in this case it happens to be musicians, but this is a more common coping / denial type behavior than just in the creative fields, it’s something common to many humans, many of us here, many people everywhere in many vocations. This is the universal self-denial which keeps the dreamers in check (and in truth, is sometimes necessary).

Working towards “a cure”:

The first step to any major conscientious change in behavior or self-initiated metamorphosis is often going to be reframing your own mentality so that you’re prepared to accept the change when and if it comes. So often do we deny ourselves and our own legitimacy, that our attempts to move in the desired direction make us feel more like we’re imposters for not immediately being
that thing and thus come at the cost of our own productivity.

So, aside from waxing philosophical, what are some practices that might help take this knowledge and put it into action? First would be acknowledging that it’s ok for you to have your own rate of output, whatever that may be. Legitimize your efforts by actually making efforts even if you aren’t immediately satisfied with the results. Don’t pigeonhole yourself by saying “I need to make music at a desk” or “I can’t make music at a desk”. If it feels like a couch day, then bring something to the couch. Take the struggle out of it by making it easy to be immediately creative.

If you can easily pluck something out of your setup and take it with you to the couch, or into the backyard, or wherever you might want to be, so that you don’t lose inspiration just looking at all the cables you have to connect or disconnect etc. then it can help with that overwhelming feeling of “this is more work than watching something on youtube” which is often followed by “let’s just see what other musicians on youtube are doing” seeking inspiration in the direction of our interest so that it feels like “I’m still sort of doing what I was originally intending to do by pursuing knowledge and inspiration from that general category.” which often satiates us of our immediate thirst but manifests later as guilt for having been unproductive in terms of measurable results.

What are some definitive practices that I can immediately put into action:

Well it depends, maybe you need a few powerbanks around so that you can take hardware to the couch, maybe you need an open/closed sign that you put on your desk so when you’re done working you can flip it to “closed” and say out loud “I’m closed for business” so that when you see this symbol, it reminds you that the obligation to code is over for the day and release yourself from that obligation and mindset. Maybe if your primary interface for music production is a laptop, immediately change your wallpaper or your color theme to something that is not synonymous with work when you’re done working.

What is the actual problem and why is it so hard to stay focused?:

We live in a culture where people literally stop searching for shit online after two clicks, there was some study to this effect, that people become discouraged if they don’t find what they’re looking for within a couple clicks of the mouse which is why I assume that I end up answering so many technical questions here on elektronauts for people where it has taken me exactly 3 clicks to find the information they’re requesting and then a shitload of typing on my part to convey what I’ve learned back to them.

In defense of other people, I do have an incredibly high measured reading comprehension which helps me filter out the important parts of what I’ve read, and I don’t mind doing community service on elektronauts so it doesn’t bother me if I’m able to help someone get past a bump in the road. I don’t fault people for seeking answers, I do however feel better if they’ve first attempted to answer their own questions as it speaks to the desire to grow and not just a desire to continue.

What is the point if everything that we try demotivates us?:

So, what’s the lesson to be learned from a two-click culture? What can we learn about ourselves from this very basic and embarrassing common human trait of “This is hard, let’s give up”?This short scene from around 20 minutes into the 1994 film PCU comes to mind, where these burnouts are supposed to be putting fliers up around campus for a paid admission houseparty which they’re throwing to raise money for rent so that they don’t get evicted, and then the smallest inconvenience causes them to quit trying to put up the fliers, even though it’s super important to everyone involved.

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The lesson is to put yourself within 2 clicks of success in things which you want to be successful in. If inspiration hits, then the first click could be to pick something up (a guitar, the octatrack, a keyboard, whatever), and then the second click could be something as simple as to turn it on.

Whatever the process is, try and have it set so that it’s as simple as possible to engage with your motivation, like laying out an outfit the night before (I don’t do that, but some people do) and anything beyond that is background noise which can literally separate you from that motivation, and that’s why it needs to be filtered out. There are enough distractions already in place which can’t be adjusted to keep ones in our way which can be improved upon.

It doesn’t literally have to be 2 clicks, but this philosophy of “strike while the iron is hot” is so universally important to following through on commitments to yourself. Commitments to other people often have a measurable consequence or a “healthy stress” kind of motivation, where there is a pressure to complete a task because we are accountable for it, but accountability to ourselves often manifests in a wider degree of negotiation towards what will cause us to give up on what we want, resulting in lowered feelings of self-worth and ultimately a tolerance for not succeeding which impacts our ability to take action.

On a personal level:

I’ve battled this scenario for years and I have extensive thoughts about the subject even beyond the obscene amount which I seem to have written here, but it’s all been to trick myself into not getting trapped in the “this is hard, let’s give up” mind-state and I would say that it works about 40% of the time and I’m in my mid 40’s so it’s like, if anything was going to work it probably already would have.

My official output is super low, but the projects that I do get invested in feel more meaningful and I actually want to put the extra effort into them, I just have to have to work at my own pace and remind myself that some progress is better than no progress.

I’ve also been working on not comparing the actual end product to that of other people in an A/B type of measurement because it’s really easy to feel like you’re a piece of shit when other people are so obviously talented, and that’s actually a really easy mindset to cause a person to become unmotivated.

A conclusion? :

I’ll end this by saying that if you know something is important to you and that you want to do it, then you already have more direction than most people. By then finding a path between where you are and where what you want exists, you then take the guesswork out of how to get there. At that point, getting there is the only remaining challenge, and it can indeed be harrowing or not as smooth of a journey in practice as it is on paper, but simply by heading in a known direction you build inertia. Eventually, even taking small steps will carry you infinitely further than the distance achieved by standing in one place.

Hopefully this is not too much at once to be helpful, but either way, best of luck to you on your journey.

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work in hardware standalone gear only. you literally can’t stop to surf the web while you’re making tracks

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Dang man this is gold!

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this.

seriously, learn tidalcycles or strudel.cc, or any other robust livecoding language and MIDI sequence your hardware with it. it’ll change your life.

then once you’ve got the hang of expressing musical patterns via algorithms, write a script/command line app that randomly generates and executes patterns for you according to your tastes. now you’ll have something that satisfies your inner novelty addict/dopamine fiend. instant gratification at the push of a button. don’t like a pattern? easy, re-roll the dice. your music making time can be fully spent getting lost in the moment, tweaking away at your hardware. if you practice enough (like any instrument) you might get good enough to perform in front of an audience, but even if not you’ll have a great time.

and during those times when you feel more like coding than making music you can refine your generative algorithms, perhaps add generative/weighted randomization of your synth’s parameters or whatever else you can think of. so the daydreaming/planning-part of your brain will also be satisfied.

even better: there’s no youtube content or tutorials for this.

i don’t know if you’re into autechre, but that’s basically their evolution over the past 3 decades. start off with hardware, get bored/frustrated by the limitations, move on to writing your own software sequencers to squeeze everything you can out said hardware instruments, and once you’ve mastered that moving on to writing your own sound generators.

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Thank you for taking the time to read it and for saying so.

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one way is to reduce any overhead that may exist in getting your gear switched on and in to the music making phase. for me and my current setup, I reduced this to about 5 steps - plug in a usb cable, turn on power switch, turn on hardware power switch. then lift the laptop lid, open a default template set, and I’m good to go.

another thing you can do is, at the end of a session - sort of, close it. whatever it was, hit render. save all the things, then tidy up, repatch, set back up the conditions so that things are ready to go again for the next session.

when you go play sports you don’t just leave all your gear on the field and go home, there’s a pack down phase.

just thinking of sports too, there is a place where discipline does come into this, there’s a reason Nike’s tagline is Just Do It.

Lastly I’ll say perhaps it might make sense, if it’s possible, to create a separation between your work desk and your fun music desk. Find ways to connect them. But find a way to disassociate music with your ‘work’. Make music fun again lol.

I had a music mentor for a brief moment, I can’t even remember the dudes name. Some dutch guy. And I think I was explaining similar things to him about getting started, and he was just like, man, just make something dude. Just do it. Press some buttons. Twist a few knobs. Turn it all on and go make a sandwich, come back and just get something happening.

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I recognize this as well. It sounds like you in a sense are allowing the dopamine circuit to be completed by watching something similar on youtube (just like the rest of us). I do it too and it works just as well as telling everyone you’re about to change significantly ahead of time, which usually is not so great, and in telling people about the plan or potential it somehow becomes real enough for the excitement to run out.

Single out what’s different in these moments compared to when an inspiring youtube video sent you straight to turn on your gear. Any other source of inspiration is fine too, just cultivate what you find and don’t close the loops, let them feed each other.

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On the positive side, watching Video Game fast runs at 2x speed on YouTube is a fun dopamine hit while saving all that time an money wasted on said video game :joy:

The above is only when I want to shut off my brain and not think.

Sometimes while I’m watching the occasional sports match on the weekends I’ll grab the acoustic guitar and work on chord voices and random noodles occasionally recording the ideas, for reference later, into my phone. I should probably set up some sort of couch power station for the small ‘Takts and grooveboxes

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I recommend this book “Tiny Habits” by BJ Fogg.

The most important thing in creating a habit is feeling good about it. You describe looking at your music gear and thinking “this is going to be hard.” That’s a recipe for resistance and doing other things instead.

Try making your goal for the next 10 days in a row to simply turn on the piece of gear you want to work on. That’s it. When you turn on the machine, smile inward and take a moment to feel good about it. Anything else you do after is a bonus. Just turn on the machine. Feel good. Repeat. That is the core of a good working habit.

The book has a lot more and is quite life changing, but the above can get you started.

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