CC#120 All sounds OFF

sicijk · 2014-11-03T07:16:43.000Z

Hi guys, I am experimenting with a setup where an external MIDI module (Undead’s TimefrogIII ) sends a special combo CCs to shut off all remaining sustained notes that it has triggered.

This combo is hard-coded and sends the following:

• CC#64 (all sustain off)
• CC#120 (all sound off)
• CC#123 (all note off)

According to the A4’s manual CC#64 is for PERF KNOB F.
Infact when I press the guilty button on Timefrog, that knob jumps immediately to 0.

The main problem, anyway, lies on CC#120…as soon this command gets sent (I tried sending just that, not that combo), the A4’s sequencer stops…

Is there any setting I can try to avoid this?

P.S.
I am already talking with the TF’s developer for a beta release that can address these issues

avantronica · 2014-11-03T14:55:13.000Z

you’d have to ask Elektron if they thought this was an oversight or whether it is by design, my hunch is the latter.
The CC120 (All Sound Off) seems to silence the oscillators if the seq is off, but it will also stop the sequencer if it is on, so i guess they made that call that if you want sound off, you want to stop the sequencer too ! You can do what you want (sorta) by sending cc7(val 0) on the specific channel, but then you need to remember to turn it back up again !
i see your issue, maybe they hadn’t thought of this as a likely requirement, there’s also cc123(all notes off) doesn’t work on a4, maybe they could work something out, but i can’t see how it’ll work for you if you retrig a note

i thought there was a command to mute a track, which may work better for you, but i can’t find it, it’s not in the manual, will do a search

avantronica · 2014-11-03T15:01:36.000Z

There’s also an nrpn, but cc94 does it (track mutes), conversely a value of 0 enables the track and anything higher will mute it !

avantronica · 2014-11-03T15:05:20.000Z

again, this might not suit, but i was also finding that the sequencer would stop even if you disabled transport receive, so i think it’s just a way to crudely kill wayward sound in an emergency, short of reaching for a mixer fader

PeterHanes · 2014-11-03T15:21:36.000Z

""sicijk"":

Hi guys, I am experimenting with a setup where an external MIDI module (Undead’s TimefrogIII) sends a special combo CCs to shut off all remaining sustained notes that it has triggered.

This combo is hard-coded and sends the following:

• CC#64 (all sustain off)
• CC#120 (all sound off)
• CC#123 (all note off)

According to the A4’s manual CC#64 is for PERF KNOB F.
Infact when I press the guilty button on Timefrog, that knob jumps immediately to 0.

The main problem, anyway, lies on CC#120…as soon this command gets sent (I tried sending just that, not that combo), the A4’s sequencer stops…

Is there any setting I can try to avoid this?

P.S.
I am already talking with the TF’s developer for a beta release that can address these issues

Interesting. I interpreted the MIDI spec as meaning that CC 123 (All Notes Off) should turn off notes that were received by MIDI but other notes should continue to play, and CC120 (All Sound Off) should silence everything (including notes played by the sequencer).

@avantronica: Do you know what the general practice is for MIDI sequencers when they receive CC123?

avantronica · 2014-11-03T15:29:02.000Z

not sure what the rules ought to be regarding sequenced notes, but that might be in here somewhere

i’m inclined to agree that it is a design choice, but perhaps contrary to the guidelines

but they’re using cc messages in all sorts of novel ways (not to spec) so we can achieve other great functionality

they may be responsive to changing this, you can only ask !

PeterHanes · 2014-11-03T15:39:00.000Z

""avantronica"":

not sure what the rules ought to be regarding sequenced notes, but that might be in here somewhere

i’m inclined to agree that it is a design choice, but perhaps contrary to the guidelines

but they’re using cc messages in all sorts of novel ways (not to spec) so we can achieve other great functionality

they may be responsive to changing this, you can only ask !

Thanks. It was the MIDI 1.0 spec that I gave my interpretation of above. I just wondered whether you (or anyone else) knows what the consensus is in various implementations.

Another research project to add to my list, I guess.

avantronica · 2014-11-03T15:51:59.000Z

it’d be worthwhile comparing it to a roland box, they can be very comprehensive in their midi spec support, sounds like it’s a reasonable thing to pitch at Elektron, i’ve nothing else at hand to test, but someone will be able to chip in if they can send those cc messages i’m sure

sicijk · 2014-11-03T16:55:03.000Z

Thanks guys!
Ticket sent to HQ asking the same and also pointing them to this thread.

Still waiting some news from Timefrog’s Developer

Lenny · 2014-11-05T03:28:59.000Z

[quote=““PeterHanes wrote””]
Interesting. I interpreted the MIDI spec as meaning that CC 123 (All Notes Off) should turn off notes that were received by MIDI but other notes should continue to play, and CC120 (All Sound Off) should silence everything (including notes played by the sequencer).

@avantronica: Do you know what the general practice is for MIDI sequencers when they receive CC123?
[/quote]

My understanding of the MIDI Spec is that both CC120 and CC123 refer to all notes. The difference being that CC123 should cause any playing notes to enter the release phase of their envelopes, whereas CC120 should silence them completely (and immediately).

Re sequencers and CC123, I believe it’s bad practice for any sequencer to record these. If you have 2 or more tracks using the same MIDI channel, then any CC123 on one track will kill any playing notes on the other tracks.

Personally, I think CC120 and CC123 should never be hard coded anywhere other than on a ‘Panic’ button, i.e. summoned by the user when the user wants it.