Can the sequencer not record ReTrig?

mezz303 · 2014-12-11T18:28:33.000Z

Dataline said something is about to released.

We guessed a new OS for the OT was coming or Overbridge.

Not even close. Was his answer.
So reading into this way too much. I speculate that a major OS update for the Rytm is coming for Christmas.

@Poonti

avantronica · 2014-12-11T18:37:31.000Z

namm is pretty close, maybe something new for that, if they are going, not another black box elektron, please, no, possibly over(due)bridge ! wrt above, imho, the sequencer engine has no concern about whether the sound generation is analog/code, it’ll be simply down to time available in a relatively small team to get it right

Dtroy · 2014-12-11T18:45:12.000Z

What bothers me about the retrig is the pad sensitivity, half the time the pads are so stiff that they don’t register the retrigging. This is annoying for live performance and makes playing retrigs live a sloppy ordeal. I just program my retrigs through p-locks.

poonti · 2014-12-11T19:25:50.000Z

""mezz303"":

Dataline said something is about to released.

We guessed a new OS for the OT was coming or Overbridge.

Not even close. Was his answer.
So reading into this way too much. I speculate that a major OS update for the Rytm is coming for Christmas.

87110_hopeful_cat.jpg448×280 22.4 KB

@Poonti

GetAJob.jpg500×355 86.9 KB

@mezz: I’m really good at explaining stuff and things in my area of expertise, which is not sytnhs and sequencers unfortunately. This also means I’ve been gainfully employed for much longer than I care to remember

Elektronot · 2014-12-11T20:52:16.000Z

""secretmusic"":

[quote=“Plsmk”]I hear you. For my music (Deep House) retrig is completely useless without swing/shuffle. Bummer

Retrig and arps. Yup. The worst is having to “justify” the decision to my students. I feel so stupid and usually don’t know what to say. I hate that feeling.[/quote]
just tell them its a sequencer limitation

Elektronot · 2014-12-11T20:54:23.000Z

""mezz303"":

Dataline said something is about to released.

We guessed a new OS for the OT was coming or Overbridge.

Not even close. Was his answer.
So reading into this way too much. I speculate that a major OS update for the Rytm is coming for Christmas

i think you’re right. namm is at the end of january

subq · 2014-12-12T00:37:34.000Z

as much as I love new hardware, please no more hardware announcements this quick…what I would love see is just a lot of polish on the A4/AK, OT, AR

mezz303 · 2014-12-12T04:53:24.000Z

""poonti"":

@mezz: I’m really good at explaining stuff and things in my area of expertise, which is not sytnhs and sequencers unfortunately. This also means I’ve been gainfully employed for much longer than I care to remember

Hi Poonti
I was just trying to have a bit of fun. What you do in life is none of my business. My apologies if it didn’t seem like a joke to you. I definately didn’t mean to cause any offence. I see now that this joke isn’t very funny and out of place on this thread. I will have to work on my comedy routine.

Mantis66 · 2014-12-12T07:01:24.000Z

For what it’s worth, the retrig with Maschine didn’t follow swing settings for years after release, and it’s all digital/software. I think the most recent update fixed this finally (I haven’t used Maschine since I got my Rytm, but I do miss the fact that retrig is quantized in realtime when playing on pads).

poonti · 2014-12-12T12:58:14.000Z

""mezz303"":

[quote=“poonti”]@mezz: I’m really good at explaining stuff and things in my area of expertise, which is not sytnhs and sequencers unfortunately. This also means I’ve been gainfully employed for much longer than I care to remember

Hi Poonti
I was just trying to have a bit of fun. What you do in life is none of my business. My apologies if it didn’t seem like a joke to you. I definately didn’t mean to cause any offence. I see now that this joke isn’t very funny and out of place on this thread. I will have to work on my comedy routine. [/quote]
No worries mezz, I didn’t take any offense at all - my reply was more of a “I wish I had a care-free life, that would match the poonti ‘get a job’ card you flashed” it’s all good!

secretmusic · 2014-12-12T18:02:41.000Z

""Elektronot"":

[quote=“secretmusic”][quote=“Plsmk”]I hear you. For my music (Deep House) retrig is completely useless without swing/shuffle. Bummer

Retrig and arps. Yup. The worst is having to “justify” the decision to my students. I feel so stupid and usually don’t know what to say. I hate that feeling.[/quote]
just tell them its a sequencer limitation [/quote]
i sometimes do, it doesn’t fix anything. Elektron are the only sequencers I know that don’t follow swing setting for their arps / retrigs. Given that they call their sequencer “world class sequencer”, it often proves difficult to explain that such sequencer would have such a silly limitation. In short, I feel full of sht if I say that, because it is, indeed, full of sht.

let’s be real here, it’s not a limitation, it’s a design decision. And there is no one at Elektron who is willing to explain / back up that decision.

in the end, it’s all good, I have moved on from their “limited sequencer” and clock most stuff from an innerclock device, which allows me to swing arps.

Cheers !

vasculator · 2014-12-12T18:09:05.000Z

""Mantis66"":

For what it’s worth, the retrig with Maschine didn’t follow swing settings for years after release, and it’s all digital/software. I think the most recent update fixed this finally (I haven’t used Maschine since I got my Rytm, but I do miss the fact that retrig is quantized in realtime when playing on pads).

exactly. Maschine just got this in the last release. personally i just want quantized start and for the retrigs to record, but i understand wanting swing as well. i would think the retrigs that are recorded would take on the swing value of the track it is on.

secretmusic · 2014-12-12T18:54:14.000Z

""vasculator"":

[quote=“Mantis66”]For what it’s worth, the retrig with Maschine didn’t follow swing settings for years after release, and it’s all digital/software. I think the most recent update fixed this finally (I haven’t used Maschine since I got my Rytm, but I do miss the fact that retrig is quantized in realtime when playing on pads).

exactly. Maschine just got this in the last release. personally i just want quantized start and for the retrigs to record, but i understand wanting swing as well. i would think the retrigs that are recorded would take on the swing value of the track it is on.[/quote]
of course, everyone would think that. it’s a logical expectation, anything else does not make sense.
and Maschine might have done this late, but they are doing it. Elektron clearly have no intention of making their arp swing, not now, and not in 10 years, as it is the same on all their machines, including the MnM.

Elektronot · 2014-12-12T21:09:44.000Z

""secretmusic"":

[quote=“Elektronot”][quote=“secretmusic”][quote=“Plsmk”]I hear you. For my music (Deep House) retrig is completely useless without swing/shuffle. Bummer

Retrig and arps. Yup. The worst is having to “justify” the decision to my students. I feel so stupid and usually don’t know what to say. I hate that feeling.[/quote]
just tell them its a sequencer limitation [/quote]
i sometimes do, it doesn’t fix anything. Elektron are the only sequencers I know that don’t follow swing setting for their arps / retrigs. Given that they call their sequencer “world class sequencer”, it often proves difficult to explain that such sequencer would have such a silly limitation. In short, I feel full of sht if I say that, because it is, indeed, full of sht.

let’s be real here, it’s not a limitation, it’s a design decision. And there is no one at Elektron who is willing to explain / back up that decision.

in the end, it’s all good, I have moved on from their “limited sequencer” and clock most stuff from an innerclock device, which allows me to swing arps.

Cheers ![/quote]
Right on, I see your point. Thats cool you found a work-around thats satisfactory. Personally I just use the sequencer straight up. If i want swing, I use my own natural swing.

vasculator · 2014-12-12T22:12:34.000Z

""secretmusic"":

[quote=“vasculator”][quote=“Mantis66”]For what it’s worth, the retrig with Maschine didn’t follow swing settings for years after release, and it’s all digital/software. I think the most recent update fixed this finally (I haven’t used Maschine since I got my Rytm, but I do miss the fact that retrig is quantized in realtime when playing on pads).

exactly. Maschine just got this in the last release. personally i just want quantized start and for the retrigs to record, but i understand wanting swing as well. i would think the retrigs that are recorded would take on the swing value of the track it is on.[/quote]
of course, everyone would think that. it’s a logical expectation, anything else does not make sense.
and Maschine might have done this late, but they are doing it. Elektron clearly have no intention of making their arp swing, not now, and not in 10 years, as it is the same on all their machines, including the MnM.
[/quote]
well at least you are being calm about it all

secretmusic · 2014-12-13T10:14:58.000Z

""vasculator"":

[quote=“secretmusic”][quote=“vasculator”][quote=“Mantis66”]For what it’s worth, the retrig with Maschine didn’t follow swing settings for years after release, and it’s all digital/software. I think the most recent update fixed this finally (I haven’t used Maschine since I got my Rytm, but I do miss the fact that retrig is quantized in realtime when playing on pads).

exactly. Maschine just got this in the last release. personally i just want quantized start and for the retrigs to record, but i understand wanting swing as well. i would think the retrigs that are recorded would take on the swing value of the track it is on.[/quote]
of course, everyone would think that. it’s a logical expectation, anything else does not make sense.
and Maschine might have done this late, but they are doing it. Elektron clearly have no intention of making their arp swing, not now, and not in 10 years, as it is the same on all their machines, including the MnM.
[/quote]
well at least you are being calm about it all ;)[/quote]
for once

secretmusic · 2014-12-13T18:55:45.000Z

""Elektronot"":

Right on, I see your point. Thats cool you found a work-around thats satisfactory. Personally I just use the sequencer straight up. If i want swing, I use my own natural swing.

And I see yours. Indeed, when possible, using one’s personal “groove” is certainly the best way to add expressivity, movement and feel to a rigid beat.

However, this is not at all what we’re talking about here. We’re not discussing USER generated sequences, but AUTOMATED sequences ( like arpegiators and rolls / retrigs). In the case of automated note generation, “your own natural swing” does not apply. The machine’s timing takes over, working AGAINST you “own natural swing”. That is the problem, and one that is very noticeable once you start bringing the Swing amount up and rolls/ arp just go out of time.

So, to be very clear, the Elektron range goes against your natural swing, by not allowing you to make automated sequences follow any kind of groove, natural or not. Any automated sequence is rigid, where every note is exactly equidistant from the ones around it. There really is no explanation as to why that is, and Elektron will never answer to it in any way. Which is what I find baffling.

Most of my time is spent teaching Elektron gear. I love it, the workflow, the sounds, the ergonomic, the stellar build quality, the fact that one has to rely on their ears and not a computer screen. I know that the music I make has been influenced in many ways by the kit I’ve been using over the years, and most of it is Elektron. This is why I would love to get down to the bottom of this and understand WHY they did this. It’s not because I want to trash them. It’s not because I’m unhappy. It’s because I’m genuinely curious. Curiosity leads to exploration, which leads to discovery, and learning. I’m convinced that in the process of finding out why they refuse to swing arps / rolls, I WILL learn something.

Regarding the recording of retrigs, it’s in the manual, so I have no doubt that some time in the future, this function will be implemented. In the meantime, I suppose the easiest work around is to lock retrigs to trigs, it can be tedious, but it’s a workaround, for now

Cheers !

avantronica · 2014-12-13T22:34:14.000Z

Maybe you wouldn’t get a straight answer, but has anyone actually asked hq if it could be implemented, ie swinging retrigs and arps, let’s not forget that the retrigs and arps can run at very odd timings, so how easy would it be to swing the ones that are not 1/16 that can take their cues from the user programmable track swing trigs ! I’m curious to hear swinging arps, which synths apps or videos might this be evident on, same with retrigs ??

secretmusic · 2014-12-14T12:54:36.000Z

""avantronica"":

Maybe you wouldn’t get a straight answer, but has anyone actually asked hq if it could be implemented, ie swinging retrigs and arps, let’s not forget that the retrigs and arps can run at very odd timings, so how easy would it be to swing the ones that are not 1/16 that can take their cues from the user programmable track swing trigs ! I’m curious to hear swinging arps, which synths apps or videos might this be evident on, same with retrigs ??

I have asked countless times, even tried petitions etc…
never any answer.

Waldorf, Access, Novation, Roland, to name just a few, all have swinging arps.
I could extend the list but really, most of them do.

I’m on holidays at the moment, but I can do a short video with all my sequencers that swing arps when I’m back in London.

Besides, what other synths do or don’t do should not matter. A world class sequencer should let all automated sequences follow the global swing setting, period.

secretmusic · 2014-12-14T13:40:54.000Z

Waldorf Pulse / Blofeld / etc

ARP Swing 0%…100%
Determines how much the timing affects an arpeggio step. If ARP Swing is set to 50% (default setting), the arpeggio is played back without any shuffled timing. A setting of 66% creates a ternary shuffled rhythm. Set- tings between 50% and 66% are perfect for finetuning of this groove, settings besides this can be used for expe- rimental grooves.

Access Virus

ARPEGGIATOR SWING
This parameter controls the “swing factor” of the rhythm patterns. Higher SWING values de- lay the even-meter or straight sixteenths; that is, every second sixteenth note. This lends the rhythm a swing feel.

Roland MC 909

Sets the particular note division and resolution in a “single grid” used in creating the arpeggio in an Arpeggio Style, and how much of a “shuf- fle” syncopation is to be to applied (none/ weak/strong) to it.
1/4: Quarter note
1/8: Eighth note
1/8L: Eighth note shuffle Light 1/8H: Eighth note shuffle Heavy 1/12: Eighth note triplet
1/16: Sixteenth note
1/16L: Sixteenth note shuffle Light 1/16H: Sixteenth note shuffle Heavy 1/24: Sixteenth note triplet

novation supernova arp patterns

[ol]
[li]89 Shuffle Accented [/li]
[li]90 Shuffle Slightly Accented[/li]
[/ol]

These are some random manuals I have on my laptop.

yes, i have way too much time on my hands these days i am on holidays, away from the studio and with only my laptop. hence i could take some time and go through my docs. In any case, I find it incredible that users cannot wrap their heads around swinging arps / rolls. It’s not really something that should be debated, in my opinion. As I have said, there is a workaround in using an Innerclock device, and swinging the actual MIDI clock getting sent to the machines. It’s actually quite magical to hear the Elektron arps working properly and following swing . It really opens up the machines.

Cheers !

EDIT : since i have been away, I have not yet tried the Innerclock with the AR retrig … anyone with a syncgen and an AR care to try and confirm that the AR retrigs do swing when driven by a syncgen ?