Can the sequencer not record ReTrig?

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#1

Just got my Analog RYTM and I’m loving it. I was a little apprehensive because of a lof of stuff I’ve read on this forum but every demo I watched and listened to sounded great and I expected it to be a nice sounding analog drum machine and sampler with all the Elektron modulation and general goodness- which it is! I have a few gripes about sample management but nothing serious and the pads are decent and I’m a pad snob I’m all about finger drumming my beats in and I play light and fast so no it’s not as responsive as I’d like and but it’s not nearly as bad as some people made them sound plus if I really had an issue with it I can easily do MidiOut from my NI Maschine to the AR. So for anyone reading this who is on the fence about one from the negative feedback I do highly recommend it, Just don’t expect it to make you pancakes!. But to the topic:

Can the sequencer record ReTrigs, or am I missing something?
For instance if I wanted to do trap style HiHats (You know the lawn sprinkler kind!) Is there a way to record that?

I can play it and use the ReTrig to get the exact sound I’m talking about but when I go to record it to the sequencer it just records the first hit and ignores the ReTrig and the ReTrig timing changes.

Is there a quantize setting I or something I can change to allow for this or does it just not do it?

Forgive me if this was already a topic or feature request I couldn’t find anything in the search.

#2

pretty sure you have to program it as a lock…

in grid mode place a trig where you want it to start… hold the trig and press retrig…

set rate, length, fade and turn it on!

voila

#3

welcome to AR world :slight_smile:
unfortunately the current firmware doesn’t allow you to record retrigs, hopefully this will be fixed in a future update, in the meantime, enjoy your new machine, i’m sure you’ll have fun!

#4

if i’m not mistaken it says in the manual that retriggers are recorded in, but the word on the forum seems to imply different, surely this has been brought up before, anyone recall why it says that but doesn’t, have i made a fool of myself and misread it ?

edit : yep, bottom of page numbered 35 !

Retrigs can be recorded on the sequencer, in GRID RECORDING mode as well as in LIVE RECORDING mode. They are recorded as separate trigs. If the retrig speed is greater than the duration of a sequencer step, trigs are created with additional internal steps (i.e. steps with retrig enabled).

#5

I think we are all hoping - as it’s states clearly in the manual that it can - it will be fixed. If I remember correctly, Elektron admitted to the fact and said it would be fixed.

I personally am going to give them about 6 months from the release of Overbridge to get the glaring bugs worked out (record retrig, off pitch in the Chromatic synth mode, synch, ect) before I start getting really upset.

#6

^ could you spell out those other bugs or point me to threads, new user, don’t want to repeat bug reports !!

#7

Yup this is the one killer bug or missing feature for me. I’m looking forward to this as the music I intended to create on this machine relies on this feature heavily. Had fun learning the machine, think I have it pretty much cased now so the missing features, bugs etc are starting to get in the way a bit more now. Seems like we are due for a RYTM update pretty soon here though.

#8

Alright, Thanks guys. I’ll mess around more and see if I can figure it out but it sounds like it’s not fully implemented yet. I’m very confident that Elektron will come out with some beastly updates for this machine!

Not to derail my own thread but,
Do you guys know if there are any other threads explaining the sample management?
…Admittedly I haven’t read the manual yet though I never fully read the manual to any of my Elektron boxes (Machinedrum. Monomachine, Analog four) and usually the features and shortcuts are intuitive enough that they just unfold to me as I use them but maybe I just peruse the manual a bit to get some clarification.
Though I was under the impression that it holds 1GB of samples in it then you can divvy those samples up to a set number per project by pulling them from the drive BUT when I tried to send a sample pack to it yesterday (About 155mb of all one shot drums and synth sounds) the transfer just stopped at around 79 samples. I followed the transfer instructions in the official Elektron AR video but maybe I’m missing something?

#9

I don’t think you’re missing anything. C6 and sample transfer is just abominable. The whole process is like a stray dog: treat is gently and it plays nice; make any sudden movements and all hell breaks loose.

@avantronica The only ones I can think off the top of my head (pretty much because I encounter them all the time in my work) are a.) retrig record b.) off-pitch in chromatic SYNTH mode: chromatic mode with samples works fine, but bring the synth machine into it and things start to go bad, fast - the pitches are off the further away from C you go c.) Synch: synching with DAWs is pretty bad: for me mine goes way off whenever I switch patterns, meters, change tempo, ect; I think some users have reported an issue even synching other Elektron boxers but seeing as I don’t have another I neither can confirm nor do I remember if that had actually been reported (or eventually figured out).

I’m sure there are others. Of course there are also things which, while not exactly bugs, should be addressed, i.e. GENERAL SAMPLE MANAGEMENT. Just awful, really.

#10

For them to fix the retrig record, they will have to get away from “recording the effects of a retrig action as seperate trigs” and focus on “recording the retrig action itself” and have it produce the retrig effect on playback each time.

When the retrig delay is short, the first method will limit the number of retrigs around a single 16th note to 3: the 1st trig is delayed in order to reach the 2nd, the 2nd trig remains, and the 3rd trig is advanced to meet the second - then we run out of trigs to microtime…so this method will never work for short retrig delays.

#11

I think the roeterig starts the moment you press
With maschine and push, the roeterig starts on the right moment on the grid.
I prefer last 2

#12

My idea is that they should record a “retrig-note” trig as a different single event than a regular “note” trig, instead of recording a retrig as a series of repeated note trigs and trying to place them with microtiming to “simulate” what happens in retrig - that just won’t work if the repeat delay is much smaller than a 16th.

But a retrig event trig can be microtimed, so that the the ensuing retrigs start at the right moment as maschine and push.

Hopefully what I’m talking about is possible, otherwise forget about recordable retrigs on the AR (at least ones without serious limtations on the repeat delay and number of repeats).

#13

I’m probably not explaining this very well :open_mouth: - Peter Hanes, avantronica, or Void would do a much better job at explaining the problems with Live Recording of retrigs…

#14

Also the current OS does not support retrigger with shuffle :frowning:

Love to do this with my MPC to procude the typical chicago house snare rolls.

#16

… ^ exactly, what a n00b effort, pff !, basically, the problem is that there are currently no nanobots fast enough to run between the triggers (short for trigonometry loggers btw) in real time ! it sorta worked at 30 bpm but the feature was pulled, that’s why it is in the manual, the bots were fast enough going consecutively but they could not jump from 16 to 1 reliably enough to maintain the sterile timing electronic paradigm (STEP) not to be confused with non realtime mode, that’s just there for people with no soul or just the one finger … clearer, exactly, huh, let’s put this one to bed now, I haz spoken ! :wink:

#17

So I don’t have an AR, but …

I had a look at the AR manual and it says (page 35) that:

If the retrig speed is greater than the duration of a sequencer step, trigs are created with additional internal steps (i.e. steps with retrig enabled).

by which I assume that they mean that this feature, when implemented, will put the recorded retrigs on a separate, invisible mini-track that can be applied to each regular sequencer step. (We could call it a “retrig trig track”, for fun.) These retrigs can or will be customized using the little pop-up menu described on page 36 of the manual.

I think that what they have planned addresses your concerns.

Edit: but I still wouldn’t mind if someone gave me an AR … :wink:

#19

fwiw, as to why it’s not there, who knows, must’ve been a little unreliable, there are a few gremlins with track/voice sharing and plocks unwelcomely affecting unlocked params

but i think it would track the sustain (well, hold) so retrigging whilst hold is recorded, therefore it seems most likely it will only be recorded on one trig event, not split between adjacent ones, it means you could mute a trig and underlying previously recorded sustain/retrig would be extended for example, a bit like recording overlapping long notes on an A4 mono track

not sure why it’s not there, but given it’s in the manual it can’t be far off

okay, new thought, that method would not account for subsequent pressure/vel variations so it is not likely to be like that at all, who knows, i’ve only had it a week or so ! i’m a noob

#20

I would be fine if recording retrigs worked like this.
Hold retrig, press the pad.
Then in the retrig menu via arrow buttons, retrig was activated for one step set to the proper timing and duration held.

Not sure how they would handle velocity.

#21

… ^ exactly, what a n00b effort, pff !, basically, the problem is that there are currently no nanobots fast enough to run between the triggers (short for trigonometry loggers btw) in real time ! it sorta worked at 30 bpm but the feature was pulled, that’s why it is in the manual, the bots were fast enough going consecutively but they could not jump from 16 to 1 reliably enough to maintain the sterile timing electronic paradigm (STEP) not to be confused with non realtime mode, that’s just there for people with no soul or just the one finger … clearer, exactly, huh, let’s put this one to bed now, I haz spoken ! :wink: [/quote]
LOL, literally. :joy: [/quote]
Lol, I am a n00b at explaining stuff and things…now where’s Void? Seriously though, I also had this thought: why are MD retrigs recordable? Do they use the same kind of ghost trig track there?

Is the difficulty related to having real analog circuitry producing the sound in AR, rather than the fully digital generators in MD?

#22

I would not hold my breath :

NONE of the Elektron machines follow the swing setting in their automated note generation (arpeggiators, retriggers)

if you wonder why, you can try asking Elektron, they will not answer you.

This is by far, in my opinion, the most ridiculous and nonsensical design decision, and a main reason why I have stopped putting so much time in their products. I have had too many students leave really disappointed when they realize that their snare roll doesn’t swing at the same setting as the overall swing setting. Or that the arp on the A4 doesn’t follow swing settings. I mean, how do you justify that to someone just learning this stuff ?

How do you explain what’s happening to someone learning about swing and what it does ? It’s completely baffling.

So forget about swing applying to your retriggers. I can bet it’s not going to happen. Which, just as in other Elektron products, renders the retrigger function useless if you use swing (God forbid)

Why, Elektron, why ? Will we ever get an answer as to why your arps / retriggers do not follow the swing setting ? What’s your logic behind this design decision ?