Hi, there. I am facing a specific “problem” where I am syncing a Boss RC 600 of my band mate from my octatrack. I had to filter the midi-stream to not send him start and stop. He stops and starts loops independently. I did this with an iConnectivty MioXM and it’s midi filter capablities.
I was sending nothing but clock.
This works okay and stays in sync but we don’t share the same one note anymore.
It’s not a real biggie but I am curious if that is possible at all. I thought about song position pointer and unticked this in the filter but this does not cure it.
The sync is pretty good, but the displayed measure position on the RC 600 is totally useless.
Maybe someone has an idea.
1 Like
I’ve never used an RC-600 (I use 'Rang III loopers), but if the RC-600 can slave loops to other loops, then the trick is to create a blank “master” loop (i.e. one or two bars long), and let that loop run continuously in the background. That way, every time your bandmate cues a slave loop, it will wait till beat one of the master loop to drop. And if you slave his looper to transport, every time you start and stop the Octatrack, his master loop will start and stop with you, effectively realigning all the slave loops.
Apologies if I’ve misunderstood the problem you’re trying to solve.
Cheers!
2 Likes
Thank’s for your reply😃
This is a good idea. A master loop. We normally have 4-8 bar loops and my band-mate collects loops over the song that get used again in different combinations. For that reason I can not give him start or stop because the behavior of the Boss geht’s erratic then. Loops start to play and have to be stopped manually.
One thing I think about right now is to send him a single start message and just filter out the stops.
This is the case while rehearsals, I don’t stop while playing live…ah not true.
There is one song where I use a stop for a break.
I will try this and report back. Maybe this is usful for someone else either.
As I said, this is nearly “cosmetic”. The loops he plays stay in sync. Only the visual indicator is not so useful.
1 Like
If Boss has implemented it properly, you should be able to have slave loops that are multiples of the master loop; therefore, a one-bar master loop should suffice. Which also means that you don’t have to wait, say, 4—8 bars to drop a loop.
Otherwise, get a 'Rang III and never look back.
Cheers!
I am on holiday right now, but will try it next week when I can get my hands on my band-mate (Cello-player) who is not a equipment aficionado.
We just recently upgraded to the RC 600 because he is used to the handling and has to learn the helix effects along the way.
He played with the predecessor which was unusable as a slave.
Most importantly there are no glitches in the loops when clocked from external, AND I have 2 shots. My idea with the start message only and your suggestion with a blank loop.
Maybe we can set this up as a preset for every track, prerecorded already.
Thanks for the input. 
I’m just going to say this…
Roland/Boss has never understood looping. They’re loopers are feature-laden, and otherwise hopelessly mired in short-sighted design decisions that pander more to the ideology of backing tracks and clip launching, predetermined recording templates, loop storage, onboard effects processing, and the tragedy that is their in-built rhythm machine; rather than focusing on LIVE looping.
And their MIDI sync sucks.
To qualify this statement, I have consulted for Boomerang (and several other boutique looper manufactures), I use them in a professional context; and, some years ago, I was approached by Roland to help redesign the platform that the RC-50 was built on. They took my advice on a few aspects of the interface, which have carried forward since the RC-300; but held staunchly to the ill-fated backend functionality that cripples their loopers to this day.
I also helped implement some of the changes (for the better) that turned the TR-8 into the TR-8S; but again, I was repeatedly met with much resistance on the backend of that OS as well (file management, signal path, sequencing, etc.), where lay the real issues.
That’s Roland for you.
So, if you find yourself wrestling with their loopers (any of their loopers), and you take live looping seriously; do yourself a favour and consider adopting a different looping platform. There are many loop pedal manufactures on the market, these days, doing it right. Not the least of which is Boomerang.
Here’s a reference to a YouTube channel, run by a guy named Andre LaFosse… It’s pretty dry stuff, but the breadth of capable loopers that he covers, in detail, is legion:
https://www.youtube.com/user/andrelafosse
Cheers!
Make sure you have the latest firmware as well. It was updated in August and added loop options based on user feedback/complaints. Not sure if the new settings will help you or not, but worth experimenting.
PS: there was an update in September as well it seems.
Oooops…
I appreciate your input but this statement is intimidating.
As I said, I am not the looping guy in my band.
We were satisfied with the sync in general.
Only minor cumbersome thing is the fact with the lost 1 note.
I do not want to doubt what you are saying. You did this professionally, that is far away from us.
I never was a Roland/Boss fanboy. Sold my Juno 106 a few years ago after it was stored at the attic for several years.
My band-mate likes the fact that he has dedicated switches (start / stop) for the looping channels. This makes it easier for him to manage the different aspects of his performance.
The Cello plays pizzicato loops that get treated differently to bowed loops.
We experimented a bit with software (Melda, Möbius, even Ableton Live) but soon came back to hardware.
The links you sent me are very interesting. Will dive into that next week.
Thank you.
All that matters is whether or not you’re happy with the gear you have, and whether or not it’s working for your needs.
If so… Perfect.
Beyond that, my knowledge, reasons, and opinions are mine alone, and shouldn’t weigh too heavy on your conscience.
Cheers!
Thank you for the headsup:+1:
Will check that asap.
The expanded loop sync options could really be helpful.
1 Like
The predecessor (RC 300) was unusable in slave mode. Now it works as intended.
As you said - if it works and fits one’s needs…
Anyway, really appreciate your comments. Thank you
However
Just for the record.
We switched back to the RC-300 because we have it and it emits master clock in a half decent way.
We would not do this if there wasn´t this upcoming show in november.
I have described the intricacies in this post:
Dont´t buy Boss when you want to loop is the lesson I have learned.
@JohntheSavage
Can you recommend something that has 3-4 looping tracks and does not suck that much?
Thank you…
This will be a rant. Differentiated and full of facts, though.
The Boss RC-600 Midi sync sucks as hell.
The reason I am writing this is partly to release a bit of my anger but secondly to warn anyone who wants to use the RC-600 in a context that involves midi clock.
It simply does not work, period !!!
I play in a 3 piece band with a cello player using a looper.
We are heavily dependent on a funtioning midi clock. Lot´s of synths, drum-machines, Elektron stuff you name it…and a Boss RC-600 looper.
We got the looper as an upgrade to it´s predecessor the Boss RC-300 because this does not accept midi slave mode.
And when used in master mode gives an very average midi clock in terms of jitter free.
We talked to the people at Thomann in germany and were guaranteed that the RC-600 would perform well when clocked from external.
Not so…
Firstly we wanted to clock the RC from my Octatrack which works really stable as a master midi clock with all our other gear (Moogs, Viruses, Digitakts…).
This did result in a system error on the Boss RC (LC 2807 0110) and the machine silenced and frozen.
So we thought we´d incorporate an ERM Multiclock to give the RC a more stable clock.
This is the most stable and precise clock you can buy (for a painful amount of money BTW).
In parallel we tried to find out if this is a thing that is due to a defective single device.
So we ordered another RC-600 and started our experiments.
So we set up everything and sent clock to all our devices and a single, virginal clock with no other midi to the Boss.
All Elektron machines rewarded the investment in the ERM Multiclock with a even more stable behaviour (which was good already) and a slightly but noticeable thighter feel.
(Well done ERM, you might be a keeper )
Not so with the terrible RC-600. Even the new device (recent FW, set to factory default) the RC-600 quit with an ugly error message.
I mean, what´s that. I bought a 600,- € master clock to give this piece of sh… a stable clock to go nuts when we just wanted to do what is simply advertised.
This should have been working without the ERM but even with it - it does not…hickup…hangover…
So, we thought we are clever (and BTW desperate because we have an upcoming show in november and we thought, well, Boss is pro).
We let the RC-600 be master and sync anything to it.
Boah, and then it got really worse. The RC had such an enormous amount of midi jitter that our whole groove collapsed.
We fluctuated within 2-5 BPM. Total mess with the groove. Not usable in any way.
I don´t know what we have missed. I would consider myself as rather advanced when it comes to midi.
I do this from back to the late 80ies. Never, never, never had such a behaviour.
So our summary:
We will send back the device and have a serious talk to the guys at Thomann (who are great normally, friendly and helpful) but recommended the RC.
The RC-600 is unusable in a context like our´s which is not so leftfield I think.
If you are a solo guitar player the RC-600 may be the right thing for you.
If you have to stay in sync with something from outside - dont buy the RC-600. It simply does not work.
2 Likes
After reading the rant I had to finally test myself.
Downloaded the latest firmware (1.21) for my RC-600, installed it and hooked the midi up to my MPC Live 2. After a couple of hiccups with setting everything up the sync works perfectly for me. Put a four on the floor bass drum on the MPC and a loop I had made earlier on my RC, they lined up perfectly and turning the BPM up on the MPC makes the RC follow it in complete sync, no complaints.
Too bad that it didn’t work out for you but your rant was very useful in that it made me finally try this out and realize that I can combine these two great pieces of gear and start looping my guitar in sync with the stuff I do on the MPC.
A silver lining on this particular dark cloud.
2 Likes
I need to try this with my SP404mkii. I was also going to mention the bit about the latest firmware because I know there have been a major update or two that have addressed a lot of people’s issues on the RC600 Facebook group. I have heard other people in the past saying that the Boss works much better in a midi setup if it is the master clock, but haven’t tried it out myself, so can’t add much to the conversation. I mostly just use it as a standalone looper for guitar.
1 Like
I
If you want to be master you have to nail it. Even this did not work, mind you.
I´m more and more tired by companies that promise a lot and don´t deliver.
We waisted so much time in searching for a solution to a problem we wouldn´t have had if we had bought something else.
And I think this is quite representative because we tried it with 2 different but exact same devices with the same result.
Midi-slave led to system-crash
Midi-master led to inacceptable instable midi timing (which was otherwise near to perfect when clocked by an OT).
And from my experience thats the problem. Nothing against Thomann per se but I’ve yet to get a satisfactory (or even correct) answer when asking technical questions of sales staff. Maybe just my experience? Either way I always find more useful info on forums etc.
I guess they just asked the manual and did not question the answer any further.
And I think, this pedal is sold a lot to guitarist that want to play on their own.
Chances are there are no such complaints but I urge my cello player to write a meaningful review on their site.
1 Like
Yep, i use one on stage since years with no issues. I had to pay loads to import it to Europe but i never regretted it. Small footprint, reliable, well built, well thought for live performance.
The only strange thing is that i’m recently using it receiving Midi from the OT and some lights or options are switched on and i don’t know why since there is no MIDI chart available. The Side Car was also quite blackmailing the customer (as big as the Rang when they could have allow all the options on one box).
TBH i tried the RC300 and thought it was a joke: it is crippled with bulls**** FX, sounds digital as f*** and is lying on the MIDI capability. Why on earth did they put a MIDI In when it cannot receive clock is beyond my mind.
Am I to understand that the MIDI sync on all of the Boss RC’s is lacking?
My personal rig is clocked by Octatrack, and it seems rock solid to me, and has for the last 5 years.
I recently started working with a singer who uses RC-505 ( mkI first, now mkII ), and the clocking is off the rails at times.
It sometimes gets to the point where I have to turn off the Octatrack metronome in my ears because it’s so far off of what the RC is sending, and just play to what I hear coming from the RC.
It can be quite frustrating.
My singer depends on the effects, so I don’t think it’ll change, but it’s good to know that it’s not my gears fault.