I have the MC-707 and I thought that it shares a lot of similarities with MV-1. I like the workflow of MC-707 very much for a Roland product. Actually I managed to “finish” a track yesterday on it only, using in addition Oxi one for advanced sequencing. The only gripe I have with this device is that it is not up for complex sound design and “weirder” experimentation the way Syntakt allows you.
I am getting very close to the idea for Push 3, as it looks like a future proof device and will keep my Ableton Live skills up to date, while being away from the computer.
Well, for me a finished track is when I am confident that my message or mood have been transferred to the potential listener. I mean, the track is not repetitive, or aimless and flows well with transitions, buildups, etc.
I dont care for the final mix at this stage apart from making room for the bass and low end percussion.
If you wanted the synth sounds from the Vlab, I believe the Mc101 has the same sounds? Just curious if that is correct. I have the tr6s and love that little thing for the sounds. For groovebox, I am more sample based so the Digitakt works great for me.
If you genuinely want people’s advice as to what would help you to finish tracks, it might be worth posting some examples of your tracks… all these types of threads are generally hypothetical/meaningless without music reference points.
Fully admit this may be recency bias, but with your gear and familiarity with Live, the push 3 standalone really would be perfect. I’m also way more productive in arrangement view, but with the push you could take those patterns you build on all the devices you enjoy and feel creative on and record them into the push. Supplement with the built in instruments, or write on the push and then switch those tracks to midi out to drive your other gear. When you’re all done with a general linear idea of what you want, you can finish your mix in live, just dragging and dropping into arrangement and finalizing your mix. The push would give you the freedom to include as much or as little of your other gear as you want, and not force you to a computer until your track is basically done. I have high hopes they’ll add an arrangement mode, but even without, it’s pretty close to where you’d want to be.
Second option: Deluge + Bluebox. Deluge is positively hands down the best at linear sequencing if you’re used to working in a piano roll and daw and don’t want to touch a computer. You could do all of your midi sequencing of gear there, get a track finalized in structure and use the bluebox to record all your stems (the deluge will record but recording long stems isn’t its strongest point, and so far the synths are good, but I prefer them just to sketch ideas in and then use the patterns to sequence other gear to finalize the tones I want)
All that said, I think a lot of the advice here is really reasonable - get a nice interface and throw your patterns right into live. Don’t worry about finishing tracks on the couch - build your ideas there and get your grooves going then plug in and finish in the box. Everything else will be a compromise.
The the fastest workflow I’ve experienced is a Elektron device with overbridge. The Syntakt will give you most of what you’ll need. If you need sample capability then also add the Digitakt, each going into your DAW via overbridge. That’s 20 tracks!!! I compose on my hardware pattern by pattern then record a live take into Ableton live with each track separated. Once I have a few good takes I’ll finish everything else in the DAW. That includes rearranging and mastering. Like others have stated you won’t be able to avoid using a DAW to finish your tracks if you want the best possible results. IMO
Maschine has a really smooth worfklow considering how much it does. The arranger is intuitive and the p.locks, efffects and performance features are great. Sold it because you can’t really sound design on it and I’m not much into sampling (and even there you can’t mangle things like an octatrack) but if they ever make a mk2 with a GUI, more power, improved sequencer and good synths I’ll buy it in a second. Don’t think It will ever happen tho, because it seems their focus was on selling packs more than giving users the ability to sound design.
Similar. All based on the same engine but Verselab has significantly more sounds than MC101 and expandable to almost endless sounds via presets and packs downloadable from Roland Cloud. You can make your own in Zenology or with other Roland hardware.
They’re either fun to jam but tedious to finish tracks on, or they’re more capable but less fun.
You said it yourself, the Syntakt is the most fun. I’ve finished an album of songs on it, but it requires a commitment to rehearsing a performance and recording it into the daw. And it’s ultimately still a limited groovebox in that it doesn’t do polyphony, samples or come with many effects.
The MPC is very capable but you didn’t like the sound of it. I can relate to a degree, the soft synths and effects are not top quality. But that’s arguably the groovebox that will let you finish tracks the easiest. And you can always export the midi data too so you could replace an uninspiring sound with something better in Live.
Then there’s Push 3, which focuses on session view and is (IMHO) more tedious to use than the MPC, but it sounds absolutely gorgeous, just like Live, and it lets you pick up the process on the computer seamlessly. It seems that the Push is the sketch box device that lets you build up the track in scenes, similar to the patterns of the Syntakt. But you’re then meant to transfer that to the arranger view in Live to sprinkle the sketch with transitions and other things.
Why do you hate doing stuff on the computer? I honestly don’t think you’ll be pleased with any groovebox unless you commit to doing part of the work of finishing tracks on the computer. The question is which workflow will give you the least friction in that initial creative process. All grooveboxes have their own tradeoffs so you need to figure out what’s most important to you.
Push 3 or Deluge. If you want a truly standalone experience I’d say Deluge. The arrangement mode on it is my favorite arranger ever… even over using Ableton probably cuz I’m so quick with using it. Easy to map out your patterns in a linear fashion and then make copied instances of those patterns and change things or make a filter sweep that covers the whole pattern and build up a track.
I also think it sounds great. I used to not think so but I dunno… the new firmware update and the new master compressor really has that thing bringing tracks together in a good way.
