Best groovebox to finish tracks on

To me you are describing the Syntakt here. It is compact, has a massive amount of sonic versatility, a sequencable FX block, and an easy-to-use but powerful song mode.

After you build your track on it solo, you can connect other gear to it and simply convert any of the internal tracks to a MIDI track, and have any of your other sound sources play it back. For example, say that bass line doesn’t have quite the bounce you want…well just hook up your Grandmother and change the bass track to a MIDI machine and you’re good to go.

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I agree with this, Syntakt is perfect for that with loads of tracks and different flavors of synthesis plus MIDI sequencer!

We should keep in mind what operon said:

and

These are the devices operon owns:

So operon searches for a SINGLE GROOVEBOX OTHER THAN THE ABOVE to finish full tracks on.

I don’t have the answer and i’m also searching for a similar piece of gear. Akai Force, SP-16 and Deluge are the only grooveboxes i haven’t tried so far.

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Well…no disrespect intended but OP also started their hardware journey one year ago and have already acquired more than 10 synths and several grooveboxes. I think in this context it’s fair to suggest they look more closely at what they already have, especially when it appears to tick many of the boxes for what they want.

Or perhaps there simply isn’t an all-in-one box that does everything they want “easily”. Because varied sound engines that are highly customizable, programmed into multiple complex patterns, with fills, transitions, etc…that’s a ton of work even in a DAW.

There are, to my knowledge, no “push a button and have finished music like I imagine in my head come out the other side” boxes out there.

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All you need is a single Pattern or two and lot of practice.

Maybe you’re not comfortable enough with your gear, you bought a lot in one year. Music is time consuming and it’s all about practice and knowing your devices.

My advice : focus on Live Performances, record them and Master them. You can even use Song Mode on the Digis if you want a structured Track.

Best groovebox to finish Tracks :

  • Syntakt : you have 12 Tracks per Pattern. You can even use MIDI Tracks if you want a Polysynth or any other Synth color.

  • Digitakt : 8 Audio Tracks and 8 MIDI Tracks (this is the way to use your other Synths).

Also, it’s important to distinguish the different stages in the process of finishing a Track : composing, mixing and mastering.

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Any kind of “song mode” where you program what parts play in succession is tedious.

I’ve not tried it yet but the Deluge looks like the best option. That or Akai Force.

I plan on using Deluge like ableton arranger view - just building up a song from left to right. No loop/clip based monotony or mental gymnastics. This is the most natural way of making a track.

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Verselab worth a look - it’s designed to force you to arrange rather than just make loops

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I found maschine+ to be the best for getting a polished mix out from. I just sold mine to focus on the elektron boxes but I’m already missing it. Especially the effects and I like the workflow. I figured I’d be ok with just the software but for an all in one box i found I could get it sounding like something I’d do in the DAW.

A bit limited with the memory though, especially when using the plugins. But resampling those and moving on also helped to get things done.

Im gonna wait and see if there’s an updated version coming out or just go with Push 3

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Specifically for finishing tracks, my favorite groovebox is the Dirtywave M8. It really encourages arrangement, with the song editor in the foreground.

I have a bunch of other grooveboxes, but I never make as many bars as quickly as I do on the M8. It’s pretty awesome.

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To the OP, I think you have way too much stuff to focus on if you’re one year into this. I would box up everything but your favorite piece of gear, buy a small Tascam / Zoom handheld recorder (I use a Tascam DR-05 but there are tons of cheap options), connect it to the outs of your groovebox and just start recording tracks. Record iterations of the same idea, try out things, experiment. Then, listen back while walking around or doing dishes / chores and see what resonates with you. Take that knowledge into the next time you have a beatmaking session. Before you know it, you’ll have a collection of tracks that represents who you are as a musician. I think you’re overwhelming yourself with all that gear all at once.

Gear won’t ever produce good ideas for you. Its still all about what you do with it, always has been. My 2c.

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That’s a great tip. I often listen to music or podcasts while doing dishes or cooking – I cook a lot and like to take my time with it, it’s another creative outlet for me. I should listen to my own recordings in that situation and see what I like and dislike about the music.

It’s very different to listen to my own stuff critically while in the process of making it or mixing, because I have the ability to make changes. Removing the ability to change it, like while doing dishes, driving, cooking, etc enables a totally different perspective.

I find it difficult to finish tracks in general, because I never know when to stop. I keep tweaking and tweaking, possibly ruining something that was already done. Separation from the controls might be a good tool to avoid this

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Does ist stream samples from disk? Or is the RAM the limit, for a live set? On paper the force looks cool, with disk streaming, but i found the MPC workflow to be convoluted, not sure how it works on the force. The sp 16 , djs 1000 are tempting because they promise to be simple - the limitations are a bit unclear to me, there are not enough youtube content, to answer all the live usage questions, and the midi implementation was a bit simple if i remember. (maybe not an issue, if elektron stuff is reccorded in a loop format.) The midi clock timing is ok?

Of everything I’ve owned possibly the deluge, especially after the new update.

Mpc one probably the most complete as it is their software in a dedicated controller and interface. It does fully replace the laptop but I see you didn’t like it. I didn’t keep mine for similar reasons

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I “finished” a few tracks on MC-707, but they were not arranged on it, instead I recorded live jams. Arranging clips/patterns is way too rough, I want evolving arrangement with different breaks, variations and soundscapes/automations throughout a whole track… so it’s either linear sequencer or performing live.

Maybe Push 3 will someday get linear sequencer (is it called arranger in Live?). Imagine recording full midi of live jam with all automations, mutes etc. directly into linear sequencer (and potential external gear/instruments into audio tracks) and then making final arrangements/corrections or even mastering it in that box. Or maybe jam using clips on top of audio recording or linear sequence of basic track arrangement. That would certainly make it worth the asking price.

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Why not use the computer to finish tracks? The amount of flexibility and freedom you get is huge, and within it you can take a track to a whole new level.

If for some reason you hate computers and insist in doing everything without one, I say that your art deserves to reach its full potential, and that requires discomfort and sacrifices.

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…sorry to say so, but u can’t have it all, if u still try to avoid a deep dive into ur daw…
a laptop remains the only full fledged sonic tool to get it all done with just one single device…
there’s no such any other thing in hw…

the only hw device that gets u close, all those late mpc’s, are already wannabe daws again…that much u started to accept already…so face it, it does not get any better than that at this point in time…
therefor, a daw like bitwig or ableton IS INDEED ur best shot to achieve final results for now…
tomorrow, we might be all able to just prompt our sonic whishes to ai applications to get where we want, but that’s beyond all musicproduction workflow solutions and set of rules as we knew them until today…that’s totally next chapter terretory from that point on…and the age of everybody wants to create music will have eaten itself…

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No disk streaming, all samples are stored in the 256mb RAM. I’m yet to hit the RAM limit, but I am careful with my files to ensure everything is perfectly looped, and loops are generally no more than four bars. If you’re looking to loop entire stems, the SP-16 isn’t for you - the maximum sample length is 32 seconds. I tend to make tracks out of mostly one-shots, with a few stereo loops between one and four bars long, typically between 136 and 148bpm.

Here’s a quote from a developer:

The SP-16 has 8GB of internal memory (flash ROM) and 256MB RAM for audio samples. The reason why we have limited the length of samples loaded is to ensure maximum performance utilising all performance features over all 16 TRACKS simultaneously. To switch between scenes whilst playing back the sequence, all of the samples used in the project must be loaded onto the RAM. Once above the 32 second sample length limit we start to jeopardise the performance of the hardware, hence why we need a sample length limit.

There are 16 TRACK’s and 16 SCENE’s, so in total there are 256 sample slots (16 x 16) in one PROJECT. The 256 sample slots share the 256MB RAM (without elaborating, 1MB per 1 sample slot). Here, we will calculate the the size of a 1 second sample as 44,100Hz x 3 Byte (24 bit) x 2 CH = 264KB. Note that some of these numbers have been rounded to the nearest whole number to make it easier to understand. 1MB divided by 264KB = 3.78 seconds. If you want to assign different samples to every TRACK in each SCENE, the samples have to be less than 3.78 seconds. Remember you have in total 256MB RAM to play with, so the previous is the most extreme. Generally, a project will consist of one shots and loops which are duplicates of other samples used across other SCENE’s. The total size of the samples exceeding 256MB is up to the user.

Next, we considered what the optimal and convenient length of a sample is. The SP-16’s pattern is up to 4 bars, so the longest loop is 16 seconds at 60 BPM. However, many users want to use longer loops and set the start/end point in the playback menu, for example, you could have a 32 second sample (16 bars at 120BPM) and select 8 seconds of that sample to create a 4 bar loop. Users would also like to record over 16 second samples, since recording guitars and vocals would require margins.

From the above reasons, we’ve balanced out the length and performance, choosing to limit the length of a sample to 32 seconds. Having said this, we are currently investigating how we can remove this limit but as its stands this is the current specification.

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I forgot to mention that a hybrid setup with Elektron gear and Overbridge (No Sync mode) is my favorite approach. It feels like an hardware setup with the ability to add extra processing on individual or grouped Tracks.

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Switching the scene reloads the samples to ram then ? Is that glitch free ? Or does it also depend, how long these samples would be?

I think the sp16 might be my next sampler replacing the sp404 and deluge. Always want to try one